What Are the Legal Steps in Calculating i^i?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the expression i^i, exploring its properties and implications in complex exponentiation. Participants delve into definitions, alternative representations, and related mathematical concepts, including the challenges of manipulating complex numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define complex exponentiation as z^w := exp(w log z), emphasizing the use of principal values.
  • It is noted that both i^i and i^(1/i) yield real numbers, which some find surprising.
  • Alternative representations of i^i are proposed, such as i^i = (e^(iπ/2))^i.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the calculation of (i+5)^(i+5) and suggests following earlier hints.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the identity (a^b)^c = a^(bc) in the context of complex numbers, with examples provided to illustrate potential issues.
  • Another participant points out that the expression 1^(z/(2πi)) = 1 holds only under specific conditions regarding the argument of z.
  • There is a discussion about the legality of certain manipulations in complex number arithmetic, with references to distinct roots of 1 and the implications of inconsistent expressions.
  • A webpage is shared that discusses these types of situations in complex exponentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the manipulation of complex numbers and the implications of certain mathematical identities. There is no consensus on the legality of specific steps in the calculations, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the complexities involved in these manipulations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of complex exponentiation and the potential for confusion arising from the multi-valued nature of complex logarithms and exponentials.

Hyperreality
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What is i^i?? And how do we find it?
 
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By the definitions!

For complex numbers, exponentiation is defined by:

z^w := \exp(w \log z)

For the principal value of the exponential, you use the principal value of the logarithm.
 
Hurkyl said:
By the definitions!

For complex numbers, exponentiation is defined by:

z^w := \exp(w \log z)

For the principal value of the exponential, you use the principal value of the logarithm.

Quite remarkable,Hurkyl,that both i^{i} and i^{\frac{1}{i}} are real numbers.

Yap,sometimes mathematics offers surprises... :cool:
 
Alternate HINT:

i^i = \left(e^{i\pi /2}\right)^i
 
Tide said:
Alternate HINT:

i^i = \left(e^{i\pi /2}\right)^i

:smile: That's not a "HINT",that's the SOLUTION!Hurkyl gave a hint.Anyway,i hope it helps him... :smile:
 
well, what stumps me is how to find like (i+5)^(i+5)?
 
tongos said:
well, what stumps me is how to find like (i+5)^(i+5)?

HINT: Follow the hints offered above! :smile:
 
The fact that (a^b)^c=a^{bc} is not right with complex numbers.

As a matter of fact, let z a complex number,
e^z=e^{\frac{2i\pi z}{2i\pi}}=(e^{2i\pi})^{\frac{z}{2i\pi}}=1^{\frac{z}{2i\pi}}=1
there is a problem.
 
  • #10
or, if you are an engineer, just open MATLAB and do i^i will save you the valuable time :biggrin:
 
  • #11
Tsss said:
The fact that (a^b)^c=a^{bc} is not right with complex numbers.

As a matter of fact, let z a complex number,
e^z=e^{\frac{2i\pi z}{2i\pi}}=(e^{2i\pi})^{\frac{z}{2i\pi}}=1^{\frac{z}{2i\pi}}=1
there is a problem.

That's slick but

1^{\frac{z}{2\pi i}}=1

only if 1 = e^{0i} (on the LHS) but you explicitly took 1 = e^{2\pi i} and used a different expression of 1 in your final step. 1^z will be 1 only if arg z = 0.
 
  • #12
Tide said:
That's slick but

1^{\frac{z}{2\pi i}}=1

only if 1 = e^{0i} (on the LHS) but you explicitly took 1 = e^{2\pi i} and used a different expression of 1 in your final step. 1^z will be 1 only if arg z = 0.

So when manipulating complex numbers we can't simply make a substitution and say:
1^\frac{z}{2\pi i}=(e^{(0i)})^{\frac{z}{2\pi i}}=e^0=1 ??

Which step above is illegal when manipulating complex numbers?

Is there a webpage, which states these types of situations...
 
  • #13
learningphysics said:
So when manipulating complex numbers we can't simply make a substitution and say:
1^\frac{z}{2\pi i}=(e^{(0i)})^{\frac{z}{2\pi i}}=e^0=1 ??

Which step above is illegal when manipulating complex numbers?

Is there a webpage, which states these types of situations...

That is a valid root of 1 and there is nothing wrong with what you did. Tsss's problem arose because he inconsistently expressed the same number in two different ways going from one step to the next.

\left(e^{0 i}\right)^{1/2} = e^0 = 1

and

\left(e^{2\pi i}\right)^{1/2} = e^{i\pi} = -1

are distinct roots of 1 but if I applied Tsss's method to the second I could find only one square root of 1. Obviously, squaring either 1 or -1 both give 1.

Here's an appropriate web page: http://home.earthlink.net/~djbach/paradox.html
 

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