Expressing Newton's 2nd law in terms of momentum

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around expressing Newton's second law in terms of momentum, specifically the relationship between the net force and the rate of change of momentum. Participants are exploring the mathematical derivation of the equation ΣF = dp/dt, where p represents momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to understand why the derivative of momentum, which includes mass, does not result in zero when mass is constant. There are questions about the treatment of mass and velocity in the differentiation process.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the differentiation process, noting that when a constant is multiplied by a function, the derivative follows specific rules. Others are questioning the role of velocity as a variable and its implications for the derivative of momentum.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the assumption that mass is constant in typical applications of Newton's second law, with exceptions noted in scenarios like rocket propulsion where mass varies significantly.

Calpalned
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Homework Statement


Show that ##\Sigma \vec F = \frac {d \vec p}{dt} ##

Homework Equations


##\Sigma \vec F = m \vec a ##
## \vec a = \frac {d \vec v}{dt} ##
## \vec p = m \vec v ##

The Attempt at a Solution


We need to prove that ## \frac {d \vec p}{dt} = m \vec a ##. When I physicists correctly take the derivative of ## \vec p ##, they get ## m \vec a ##. How come taking the derivative doesn't affect ##m## ? If ##m## is constant, shouldn't it go to zero?
I know that I am wrong somewhere, but I want to fully understand how this formula was derived.
 
Last edited:
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The method to find derivative of such a function is different.

When derivative of 'only' the constant is taken, it is zero.

When a constant is multiplied with some function, the derivative of the resulting function is the constant multiplied with the derivative of the function.
F=dp/dt
F=d(mv)/dt
F=m dv/dt
F=ma.
 
Last edited:
Edit: the V is not to be here.
 
Last edited:
Hithesh said:
The method to find derivative of such a function is different.

When derivative of 'only' the constant is taken, it is zero.

When a constant is multiplied with some function, the derivative of the resulting function is the constant multiplied with the derivative of the function.
F=dp/dt
F=d(mv)/dt
F=m dv/dt
F=ma.
 
Hope it helped
 
Yes, that makes sense.
Normally, if ##\vec v## is a variable and ##m## is a constant, the derivative of ## m \vec v ## will become ##m##. Is ##\vec v## not a variable here?
 
Second law of motion states that, "The rate of change of momentum is directly proportional to the force applied. "

Now p = mv

We take m as constant, because rate of change of mass in situations involving second law of motion is negligible (you can consider rocket propulsion as an example in which mass varies significantly with time).

taking derivative both sides with respect to time (t),

ΣF ∝ dp/dt
ΣFd(mv)/dt
ΣF m.dv/dt
ΣF ∝ ma (a = acceleration = d(v)/dt )
ΣF = kma (k = proportionality constant = 1, in SI units)
ΣF = ma

Since, you are taking derivative of velocity with respect to time equals to 1 instead of acceleration, that is why you are getting on that result.
 
Calpalned said:
Yes, that makes sense.
Normally, if ##\vec v## is a variable and ##m## is a constant, the derivative of ## m \vec v ## will become ##m##. Is ##\vec v## not a variable here?
V has nothing to do here. kick it out.
 

Calpalned said:
Yes, that makes sense.
Normally, if ##\vec v## is a variable and ##m## is a constant, the derivative of ## m \vec v ## will become ##m##. Is ##\vec v## not a variable here?

V is the variable.
But derivative of mv isn't m. It is m multiplied by derivative of v with respect to time.
Derivative of velocity with respect to time is nothing but acceleration
 
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