Extracting energy out of hydrogen and oxygen

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The discussion centers on the most effective methods for extracting energy from hydrogen and oxygen, with three main approaches considered: fuel cells, combustion in turbines, and internal combustion engines (ICE). Fuel cell technology is highlighted as the most efficient, although it faces challenges due to existing infrastructure and the need for pure hydrogen. ICEs are noted for their higher combustion efficiency compared to gasoline, while steam turbines are deemed less practical. The conversation also touches on the efficiency of electrolysis for hydrogen production, with varying estimates depending on the method used. Overall, the efficiency and practicality of each method remain key points of debate in the exploration of hydrogen as an energy source.
  • #31
mheslep said:
Hydrogen and natural gas flame temperatures are very similar.

This usually explains why steel (not pig iron) took so much time to be truly molten. It melts at about 1500 plus give Celsius.From a historical point of view where natural gas was very abundant. No.
 
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  • #32
Lok said:
... It melts at about 1500 plus give Celsius.From a historical point of view where natural gas was very abundant. No.
Yes. There's a lot of engineering in the heat management of gas turbine engines. Heat resistant metals or ceramics are used, and the combustion gasses are rapidly expanded which cools them.
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/power_plants/Gas_Turbines.htm
http://www.netl.doe.gov/technologies/coalpower/turbines/refshelf/igcc-h2-sygas/Using%20H2%20as%20a%20GT%20Fuel.pdf
 
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  • #33
Lok said:
Fuel cells do not require pure hidrogen, not that pure hydrogen is that hard to get. Engines are actually more fussy about purity, I mean a constant purity that it is set.

This is incorrect. Fuel cells are very easily poisoned by CO and H2S. CO and sulfur based impurities bond with the platinum on the anode side of the cell removing reactions sites for the hydrogen. CO can be easily removed by applying a potential across the cell but sulfur based compounds have stronger bonds and sulfur sticks to just about everything so removing it can be more difficult.

Often, bi-metal catalysts are used on the anode side of a fuel cell to help reduce the effects of poisoning. Pt-Ru is a very common catalyst but the added Ru makes it more expensive.

Heat resistant metals or ceramics are used

Do they actually use ceramics commercially in heat turbines these days? I thought the failure rate of ceramics was still to unpredictable.
 
  • #34
Topher925 said:
Do they actually use ceramics commercially in heat turbines these days? I thought the failure rate of ceramics was still to unpredictable.
I can't reference a model number, only this at the moment:
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/power_plants/Gas_Turbines.htm
 
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