Introduction of Oxygen and Hydrogen

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the effects of introducing hydrogen and oxygen into an internal combustion engine alongside gasoline, particularly regarding how various sensors respond to changes in fuel composition and combustion efficiency. Participants explore the implications for engine performance and sensor readings, focusing on the technical aspects of air-fuel ratios and combustion products.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether adding hydrogen and oxygen would cause the engine's sensor to read lean, suggesting that this could lead to increased gasoline injection.
  • Another participant clarifies that the type of sensor (O2 or CO2) matters, noting that adding hydrogen consumes O2 without affecting CO2 levels, which would influence sensor readings differently.
  • A participant with an automotive background states that the impact on sensor readings depends on the ratio of hydrogen and oxygen added, indicating that a stoichiometric mixture would not prompt further adjustments from the engine's computer.
  • There is a suggestion that the O2 sensor would signal rich or lean conditions based on the overall fuel mixture, regardless of the specific type of fuel used, as long as the combustion is incomplete.
  • Another participant agrees with the previous point, emphasizing that the engine's computer adjusts based on the presence of free O2 in the exhaust and that different air-fuel ratios may be commanded by the PCM under various conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how the introduction of hydrogen and oxygen affects sensor readings and engine performance. There is no clear consensus on the precise outcomes or mechanisms involved, as various factors such as fuel ratios and sensor types are debated.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of combustion processes and sensor interactions, noting that assumptions about fuel ratios and sensor types can significantly influence the discussion. There are unresolved questions regarding the specific conditions under which different sensors respond to changes in fuel composition.

John1397
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Does introducing small amount of hydrogen and oxygen with gasoline into an internal combustion engine make the sensor read lean and and just enter more gasoline?

John
 
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what kind of sensor is it? CO2? or O2? Do you measure the combustion products only? Adding hydrogen will will consume O2, but not change CO2 in the products,so an O2 sensor will detect that you are burning richer and a CO2 sensor will not. Adding oxygen will of course make it lean and CO2 and O2 sensors will both pick this up.
 
I'm not a chemist but I am an auto tech. My assumption would be that it would depend on the ratio you added those elements. If they were added in a stoichometric ratio then the PCM would make no further changes due to complete combustion (you would get more work out of the engine though). If you added a lean hydrogen/oxygen mixture then the PCM would try and enrichen with gasoline until stoich is achieved and just the opposite would happen if you added a rich ratio.

BTW, auto engines use an O2 sensor. Most PCM's (that's the engine computer) use the O2 sensor to fine tune the air-fuel ratio once the engine is warmed up and running in closed loop mode.
 
Sounds like if you put hydrogen or gasoline into a motor the o2 sensor will send back a signal depending if you add to much fuel or to little it would send back a to rich or to lean signal regardless of kind of fuel is added. If you run a motor on 14:1 ratio of either hydrogen, gasoline, or even propane the o2 sensor will send back the same reading if I understand correctly?
 
John1397 said:
Sounds like if you put hydrogen or gasoline into a motor the o2 sensor will send back a signal depending if you add to much fuel or to little it would send back a to rich or to lean signal regardless of kind of fuel is added. If you run a motor on 14:1 ratio of either hydrogen, gasoline, or even propane the o2 sensor will send back the same reading if I understand correctly?

Exactly. Fuel is fuel. It's the incomplete combustion that is indirectly measured by the presence of free O2 in the exhaust that makes the engine computer make adjustments.

Also, bear in mind the engine PCM doesn't always desire 14:1. If you're working on a project, bear in mind that leaner mixtures are sometimes commanded by the PCM. Ratio's upwards of 55:1 during coasting can be called for (and some turn off the fuel completely for coasting conditions)
 
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