Failing trigonometry = the death of a amatuer physicist

[ank_gl]

If kids were exposed early enough, I don't think there would be any problems. The problem is, in schools, kids are not learning as much as they should be. For example, kids are coming into high school, not knowing how to graph a (X,Y) point, or can barely deal with fractions. It's the schools that are the problem, not the restraints of the kid's age.

talkin about US??
I dunno, its not so in the world 180degrees past US.

I agree with Wellesley. Kids of age 8 play computer games that require more logical reasoning than solving the average university homework math problem requires. So, kids at primary school are capable of learning much more mathematics than they are taught now.

hold on,, which game requires logical reasoning?, as in quake?, calculation of projectile motion, NFS?, automotive engineering?, blah... what?. only game requiring any mental exercise is solitaire or spider solitaire or freecell i guess, but then, how many 8 year olds play these?(i only see my dad playing it)

Also, if you were to teach math at a younger age, the brains of children will develop differently so that they can more easily understand math. It is similar to how you wouldn't have been able to read and write properly if you had learned it after the age of 12. Reading a sentence would have remained as difficult for you as for a five year old who has just learned it.

early starters learn more! is this what you mean? I don't see anyone who can support this 100%. it might be the case, but it won't be the case always.

will to study & understand comes with maturity, not by forcing tykes to remember sin(90) = 1. when did Einstein start?

Children are not computer, they are not meant to be programmed, they are meant to be nurtured. I seriously advice you try to teach a 12 year old.

 

[ank_gl]

anyways, skimming through the post, DarrenM has made the colossally right point & the best so far

 

[Wellesley]

talkin about US??
I dunno, its not so in the world 180degrees past US.


hold on,, which game requires logical reasoning?, as in quake?, calculation of projectile motion, NFS?, automotive engineering?, blah... what?. only game requiring any mental exercise is solitaire or spider solitaire or freecell i guess, but then, how many 8 year olds play these?(i only see my dad playing it)


early starters learn more! is this what you mean? I don't see anyone who can support this 100%. it might be the case, but it won't be the case always.

will to study & understand comes with maturity, not by forcing tykes to remember sin(90) = 1. when did Einstein start?

Children are not computer, they are not meant to be programmed, they are meant to be nurtured. I seriously advice you try to teach a 12 year old.

Since this thread went off-road a while ago,
ank_gl, I'm not quite sure what you meant by the comment about the U.S. Did you mean other countries are worse, or better than America? What's "180 degrees past the U.S."?

Regarding the games: any strategy (Real time, turn-based), adventure (Traitors Gate, etc.), or role-playing (Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic) game requires a certain degree of reasoning. I have seen plenty of 11 and 12 year old kids (sometmes even younger kids) playing games geared towardadults and 16-18 year olds play.

I don't necessary believe we should start teaching 8 year olds trig identities. Rather, the courses taught in middle school and high school (in the U.S.) should be streamlined so that courses in High school, (i.e. Trigonometry) are more meaningful and integrated with more advanced courses.

 

[calceus]

Trigonometry is a one page subject:

That requires only two real numbers to fully comprehend, after "learning" the basics.

However, do to the generically defined concepts of inversion, reflection, and rotation, that must be "preformed" in a very specific order: mistakes are common.

Trig is the most "efficient" branch of mathematics when used correctly.

But the ease of making "mundane" simple clerical mistakes, can cause one to loose comprehention all together.

 

[kaos86]

The United States hasn't been about education.

It has been about sports, leisure, and partying. There's no way you can change that now.

We can change that. We just need to make education serious for today's Americans (like me.) and have books that can help students understand the subject at hand. well, maybe if possible.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

It CAN be done...it's going to be a major overhaul and change in the curriculum especially at the high school level.

It's pitiful how the U.S. has one of the worst education systems in the world, and California, being the worst state in terms of education, decides to cut down its budget through a HUGE budget cut in education.

 

[Wellesley]

We can change that. We just need to make education serious for today's Americans (like me.) and have books that can help students understand the subject at hand. well, maybe if possible.

But why would the teachers want to change? That means more work for them. Note, I am not saying all teachers don't do work. The work ethics follow a bell curve.

 

[maze]

hold on,, which game requires logical reasoning?, as in quake?, calculation of projectile motion, NFS?, automotive engineering?, blah... what?. only game requiring any mental exercise is solitaire or spider solitaire or freecell i guess, but then, how many 8 year olds play these?(i only see my dad playing it)

Starcraft is one that immediately comes to mind.

 

[Count Iblis]

If we again compare the way math is taught to other subjects then we also see that part of the curriculum of most subjects will also consist of activities that are fun. In case of language lessons we can think of activities like reading books, even watching t.v. (e.g. during French lessons in high school the teacher sometimes brought her video and we watched some t.v. program).

Another thing is that unlike the other subjects, the goal of learning math is not clear to students. Students are not told how math is used in the real world. The problems they solve are artificial useless problems with little application to either practical application or even as good practice problems to learn more advanced math.


So, there is a lot of room for improvement. One can invent new computer games for small children that will automatically train their logical thinking skills without the children even getting the idea that they are doing anything else than playing. You can imagine children in kindergarten playing such games instead of wasting their time doing nothing as is the case now.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Another thing is that unlike the other subjects, the goal of learning math is not clear to students. Students are not told how math is used in the real world. The problems they solve are artificial useless problems with little application to either practical application or even as good practice problems to learn more advanced math.

blame that to the plug and chug approach by most of the math teachers

 

[ank_gl]

Since this thread went off-road a while ago,
ank_gl, I'm not quite sure what you meant by the comment about the U.S. Did you mean other countries are worse, or better than America? What's "180 degrees past the U.S."?

For example, kids are coming into high school, not knowing how to graph a (X,Y) point, or can barely deal with fractions.

I meant if this happens in US? Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.
Literacy rate in my part of the world isn't the best, but it so happens that math somehow seems to be the easiest subject around here. It is probably because of the way it is taught, plug & chug technique, as thrill3rnit3 mentioned. Teachers don't bother to tell what sin(α) actually means, it is only the ratio of two sides in a right angled triangle. It is tooo much formula based. It just brings it back to page 1 i guess, high school was a joke

 

[qntty]

Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.

Math in US public schools definitely isn't among the best. Maybe in universities but not in high school.

 

[Raizy]

And the brain develops differently. Well, is it a good thing? I have the feeling (with no solid evidence support) that this type of changing the structure of brain sacrifices the flexibility of the young minds. Assume so, then personally I don't think that it is a good thing.

Hmm, so is this what Dawkins ment by teaching kids how to think and ask questions? I wonder if it's possible to mold a young child's mind without the need for a rigorous mathematics education to mold him into a natural critical thinker as he reaches a certain age.

hold on,, which game requires logical reasoning?, as in quake?, calculation of projectile motion, NFS?, automotive engineering?, blah... what?. only game requiring any mental exercise is solitaire or spider solitaire or freecell i guess, but then, how many 8 year olds play these?(i only see my dad playing it)

Starcraft is one that immediately comes to mind.

These games are called RTS (Real Time Strategy). Basically, you build military buildings, raise an army, and try to win the war (every race has it's weaknesses and strong points, and the way you want to win the war will depend on your creativity on how you design your army). It's like an electronic version of risk. There are also RPG games where I think it would be pretty rare for a <10 year to get good at (trying to build a perfect "character" suited for X,Y,Z role). But these games eventually get repetitive and it ends up rotting your mind instead of building it.

 

[Wellesley]

I meant if this happens in US? Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.
Literacy rate in my part of the world isn't the best, but it so happens that math somehow seems to be the easiest subject around here. It is probably because of the way it is taught, plug & chug technique, as thrill3rnit3 mentioned. Teachers don't bother to tell what sin(α) actually means, it is only the ratio of two sides in a right angled triangle. It is tooo much formula based. It just brings it back to page 1 i guess, high school was a joke

I really do not believe the United States has the best schools. They might be able to compete at the University level (MIT, Cal Tech, etc.), but not at any level lower than that. The plug and chug method seems like the only used in high school in the U.S.

These games are called RTS (Real Time Strategy). Basically, you build military buildings, raise an army, and try to win the war (every race has it's weaknesses and strong points, and the way you want to win the war will depend on your creativity on how you design your army). It's like an electronic version of risk. There are also RPG games where I think it would be pretty rare for a <10 year to get good at (trying to build a perfect "character" suited for X,Y,Z role). But these games eventually get repetitive and it ends up rotting your mind instead of building it.

If you want to take a look at a really logic intensive game, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3_Reunion" . In order to do well, it requires days of following a successful plan. Not every 12 year old is interested in doing this, but if they are, they can do extremely well.

If teachers could funnel this energy into the classroom, using practical, real world applications in math and science (among other topics), more kids would be interested in school at the very least.

 

[epenguin]

Don't get desperate to learn it, relax & start studying it from scratch, ie, assume that you haven't seen θ, Ψ, α, γ etc before.

Sometimes one overlooks a simple statement & understands it in a wrong or not so correct form & repeats the same mistake time & time again without noticing it. it happens with soo many people. Don't get restless about it, just rethink what you are doing wrong.

I agree with ank_gl, especially the highlighted bit. Needs some form of what's-this-really-about relaxation, transfer your success in other departments to this.

Trigonometry is a one page subject:

That requires only two real numbers to fully comprehend, after "learning" the basics.

However, do to the generically defined concepts of inversion, reflection, and rotation, that must be "preformed" in a very specific order: mistakes are common.

Trig is the most "efficient" branch of mathematics when used correctly.

But the ease of making "mundane" simple clerical mistakes, can cause one to loose comprehention all together.

And that diag. contains more functions than most of us have heard of or ever need.

I sometimes return to and get stuck on e.g. proving the formula for cos(A + B). Yes I can easily do it by complex numbers but for var, reasons I want to do it geometrically. I seem to not make the right construction straight off and it doesn't work. There is more than one construction that seems plausible so if one doesn't work, try another.

I agree also do not be limited by the set book which you found unhelpful, go to bookshop and find another that looks right for you.

We cannot really know nature of your problems without an example.

I do not have the original quote to hand but
" Churchill's ally on this examination was trigonometry, much of which he could learn by heart. On the examination he faced one question ''about these Cosines and Tangents in a highly square-rooted condition. ... But luckily I had seen its ugly face only a few days before and recognised it at first sight.'' "

 

[Skins]

I failed plenty of subjects in high school. I flunked high school trig and had to take it over and didn't do so hot the second time around.

In college I did great in math and I went on to major in math in both undergrad & grad college In addition to my college training and am very good at self teaching myself new ideas. I have a particular affinity for the abstract.

But, going back to my high school days who would have guessed ?

 

[Wellesley]

I feel so shamed of myself. I don't know who to blame. The teacher gives the exact same lessons on the book, but never follow how you should answer your trig. problems. I studied all through the week and even late at night. I got a C in the class, but I really want to be a physicist because I love math. Math is like a fun puzzle to solve. I feel like my dreams are dying and theoretical physics may be a fool's dream. Can anybody cheer me up? Has any physicist failed a math class and later on in life did very good on other math subjects.

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

Thank you for those who took time reading my dilemma.

Even though many people have told stories of how to come back from math pitfalls in high school, don't take the attitude of not trying. Just because it's "high school" doesn't mean it is worthless. Always strive to do the best you can.

 

[kaos86]

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

 

[symbolipoint]

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

What you should try to understand now but might not understand until at least four or five more years is that LEARNING is what is important, and not merely course credit. Additionally, one time through a course is not enough for some people in some courses. If certain course areas are difficult for you to pass, then you need to study both BEFORE enrolling and REPEAT some courses, either officially or unofficially or both officially AND unoffically.

In any case, spending more time TRYING in your trigonometry course will help you with familiarity when or if you actually repeat your Trigonometry course. In your current case, telling you just how to proceed in Trigonometry is not certain because of the possibility of misguidance; if you do not get a good grade, then at least you must study again but also search for any underlying weaknesses in prerequisite material.

 

[DrummingAtom]

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

How many nights prior to the that 4th exam did you study? Just the night before? If so, I know for me, cramming Math is more confusing than not studying at all.

As for video games, if these are a problem and getting in the way of your studying, delete them. You don't have to throw them out, but just delete them for a period of time. Most games, especially the online ones, require a significant amount of time to reinstall (+30 min). This is due to software updates, downloading maps, etc. When I need that "quick fix" for a video game when I'm swamped, I realize that it's going to take more time to install the stupid thing than to play it. Which in turn = more studying. Goodluck.

 

[ImAnEngineer]

I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D".

If you stay up all night it's no wonder you fail. You need to take the time, start preparing on time and get a good night sleep before the test. Feeling tired isn't going to help you when doing hard things.

Also, feeling confident is important (even if you think you don't really master the material). If you think you suck and going to fail, well, you are. If you pretend to be the best math student that ever existed, you'll do a lot better on things you never even thought you could do.

 

[Wellesley]

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

Have you at least asked the teacher for help? Or have you asked your buddies in the class to help you out? You'd be surprised at the response if you asked.

By the way, cramming for an obviously hard topic, all throughout the night before the test, is not a good idea. These methods of studying will not get you too far in life, or college.

 

[Dr.NE.Ellis]

I got destroyed is maths are the start of what has turned into my physics adventure. I also got C for Maths
But now i have a Undergrad in physics, A Masters, PhD and have been in my dream job for 4 years now.

All i did was mainly teach myself and read about 3-4 books on area i was struggling on which helped. But in the end i went to the head of maths at my school and just asked for help (I found the head of the department to be a much better teacher as he still had passion for the subject)

But you can always retake maths it is no big deal at all, and should not stand in the the way of you becoming a physicist if you want it enough.

Hope this helps.
~N~

 

[ank_gl]

If teachers could funnel this energy into the classroom, using practical, real world applications in math and science (among other topics), more kids would be interested in school at the very least.

And almost none do so, either they don't want to do it, or they don't know it, latter being more probable. One is very lucky if he gets a teacher like one mentioned above, fortunately my chemistry teacher in high school was just like that, exactly like that.

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

studying all the time is not a solution, grabbing what one studies is. As calceus already pointed out, trigonometry is a only a one page theory, rest is practice. Relax a bit, format your trig drive, install a fresh copy of trigonometry, install drivers and run your program afresh. you ll do great. all the best

 

[kaos86]

I did it...I pulled a fast one and I DID IT!

Take a look...

http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grdes.jpg

I pulled an all night study for the finals and made it.

What I've learned from this:

1.) Videos games need to be restricted.(Play them on weekends is better.)

2.) Never be cocky in any class.
(I thought I was a math god because I passed college algebra with an "A".)

3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

4.) If I want to study Theoretical Physics, I need to be more serious about it.

Lesson learned! And I thank those who reply in this thread.

Thank you everyone for your tips and experiences.

 

[qntty]

3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

and if you really want to improve practice things that are harder than what you're expected to do.

 

[ImAnEngineer]

I did it...I pulled a fast one and I DID IT!

Take a look...

http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grdes.jpg

I pulled an all night study for the finals and made it.

What I've learned from this:

1.) Videos games need to be restricted.(Play them on weekends is better.)

2.) Never be cocky in any class.
(I thought I was a math god because I passed college algebra with an "A".)

3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

4.) If I want to study Theoretical Physics, I need to be more serious about it.

Lesson learned! And I thank those who reply in this thread.

Thank you everyone for your tips and experiences.

80% Yay!