Failing trigonometry = the death of a amatuer physicist

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the challenges faced by a participant struggling with trigonometry, expressing feelings of inadequacy and frustration regarding their academic performance. Participants share personal experiences, advice, and reflections on learning mathematics, particularly in the context of pursuing physics. The conversation touches on educational methods, the impact of teaching quality, and the emotional aspects of learning difficult subjects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses feelings of shame and frustration over their performance in trigonometry, questioning their potential as a physicist.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding the reasons for poor performance is crucial and emphasizes the importance of restudying material.
  • A participant shares a motivational quote and encourages the original poster to persevere despite setbacks.
  • Several participants recount their own experiences of failing math classes yet achieving success later, indicating that initial failures do not preclude future success.
  • Concerns are raised about the teaching methods of the professor, with one participant criticizing the lack of clarity in homework assignments and examples.
  • Some participants recommend using multiple resources to better understand trigonometry and suggest that learning may take time and require different approaches.
  • Another participant reflects on their own journey, noting that they did not excel in math until calculus, suggesting that understanding may develop over time.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of deriving formulas rather than relying solely on memorization for success in mathematics.
  • One participant shares a personal anecdote about overcoming difficulties in trigonometry through self-study and finding the right resources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that struggles in mathematics are common and that perseverance is important. However, there are differing views on the effectiveness of teaching methods and the role of personal responsibility in learning. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best strategies for overcoming difficulties in trigonometry.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the importance of foundational knowledge and the potential impact of teaching quality on student performance. There are references to individual learning styles and the necessity of finding effective study methods, but specific strategies remain varied and subjective.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students struggling with mathematics, particularly those interested in physics, as well as educators seeking insights into student experiences and challenges in learning complex subjects.

  • #61
Wellesley said:
Since this thread went off-road :biggrin: a while ago,
ank_gl, I'm not quite sure what you meant by the comment about the U.S. Did you mean other countries are worse, or better than America? What's "180 degrees past the U.S."?:confused:
For example, kids are coming into high school, not knowing how to graph a (X,Y) point, or can barely deal with fractions.
I meant if this happens in US? Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.
Literacy rate in my part of the world isn't the best, but it so happens that math somehow seems to be the easiest subject around here. It is probably because of the way it is taught, plug & chug technique, as thrill3rnit3 mentioned. Teachers don't bother to tell what sin(α) actually means, it is only the ratio of two sides in a right angled triangle. It is tooo much formula based. It just brings it back to page 1 i guess, high school was a joke:approve:
 
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  • #62
ank_gl said:
Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.

Math in US public schools definitely isn't among the best. Maybe in universities but not in high school.
 
  • #63
millitiz said:
And the brain develops differently. Well, is it a good thing? I have the feeling (with no solid evidence support) that this type of changing the structure of brain sacrifices the flexibility of the young minds. Assume so, then personally I don't think that it is a good thing.

Hmm, so is this what Dawkins ment by teaching kids how to think and ask questions? I wonder if it's possible to mold a young child's mind without the need for a rigorous mathematics education to mold him into a natural critical thinker as he reaches a certain age.

ank_gl said:
hold on,:confused:, which game requires logical reasoning?, as in quake?, calculation of projectile motion, NFS?, automotive engineering?, blah... what?. only game requiring any mental exercise is solitaire or spider solitaire or freecell i guess, but then, how many 8 year olds play these?(i only see my dad playing it:wink:)

maze said:
Starcraft is one that immediately comes to mind.

These games are called RTS (Real Time Strategy). Basically, you build military buildings, raise an army, and try to win the war (every race has it's weaknesses and strong points, and the way you want to win the war will depend on your creativity on how you design your army). It's like an electronic version of risk. There are also RPG games where I think it would be pretty rare for a <10 year to get good at (trying to build a perfect "character" suited for X,Y,Z role). But these games eventually get repetitive and it ends up rotting your mind instead of building it.
 
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  • #64
ank_gl said:
I meant if this happens in US? Its hard to believe if so, because US got the best schools, i guess.
Literacy rate in my part of the world isn't the best, but it so happens that math somehow seems to be the easiest subject around here. It is probably because of the way it is taught, plug & chug technique, as thrill3rnit3 mentioned. Teachers don't bother to tell what sin(α) actually means, it is only the ratio of two sides in a right angled triangle. It is tooo much formula based. It just brings it back to page 1 i guess, high school was a joke:approve:

I really do not believe the United States has the best schools. They might be able to compete at the University level (MIT, Cal Tech, etc.), but not at any level lower than that. The plug and chug method seems like the only used in high school in the U.S.




Raizy said:
These games are called RTS (Real Time Strategy). Basically, you build military buildings, raise an army, and try to win the war (every race has it's weaknesses and strong points, and the way you want to win the war will depend on your creativity on how you design your army). It's like an electronic version of risk. There are also RPG games where I think it would be pretty rare for a <10 year to get good at (trying to build a perfect "character" suited for X,Y,Z role). But these games eventually get repetitive and it ends up rotting your mind instead of building it.

If you want to take a look at a really logic intensive game, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3_Reunion" . In order to do well, it requires days of following a successful plan. Not every 12 year old is interested in doing this, but if they are, they can do extremely well.

If teachers could funnel this energy into the classroom, using practical, real world applications in math and science (among other topics), more kids would be interested in school at the very least.
 
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  • #65
ank_gl said:
Don't get desperate to learn it, relax & start studying it from scratch, ie, assume that you haven't seen θ, Ψ, α, γ etc before.

Sometimes one overlooks a simple statement & understands it in a wrong or not so correct form & repeats the same mistake time & time again without noticing it. it happens with soo many people. Don't get restless about it, just rethink what you are doing wrong.
I agree with ank_gl, especially the highlighted bit. Needs some form of what's-this-really-about relaxation, transfer your success in other departments to this.

calceus said:
Trigonometry is a one page subject:

338px-Circle-trig6.svg.png


That requires only two real numbers to fully comprehend, after "learning" the basics.

However, do to the generically defined concepts of inversion, reflection, and rotation, that must be "preformed" in a very specific order: mistakes are common.

Trig is the most "efficient" branch of mathematics when used correctly.

But the ease of making "mundane" simple clerical mistakes, can cause one to loose comprehention all together.
And that diag. contains more functions than most of us have heard of or ever need.

I sometimes return to and get stuck on e.g. proving the formula for cos(A + B). Yes I can easily do it by complex numbers but for var, reasons I want to do it geometrically. I seem to not make the right construction straight off and it doesn't work. There is more than one construction that seems plausible so if one doesn't work, try another.

I agree also do not be limited by the set book which you found unhelpful, go to bookshop and find another that looks right for you.

We cannot really know nature of your problems without an example.

I do not have the original quote to hand but
" Churchill's ally on this examination was trigonometry, much of which he could learn by heart. On the examination he faced one question ''about these Cosines and Tangents in a highly square-rooted condition. ... But luckily I had seen its ugly face only a few days before and recognised it at first sight.'' "
 
  • #66
I failed plenty of subjects in high school. I flunked high school trig and had to take it over and didn't do so hot the second time around.

In college I did great in math and I went on to major in math in both undergrad & grad college In addition to my college training and am very good at self teaching myself new ideas. I have a particular affinity for the abstract.

But, going back to my high school days who would have guessed ?
 
  • #67
kaos86 said:
I feel so shamed of myself. I don't know who to blame. The teacher gives the exact same lessons on the book, but never follow how you should answer your trig. problems. I studied all through the week and even late at night. I got a C in the class, but I really want to be a physicist because I love math. Math is like a fun puzzle to solve. I feel like my dreams are dying and theoretical physics may be a fool's dream. Can anybody cheer me up? Has any physicist failed a math class and later on in life did very good on other math subjects.

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

Thank you for those who took time reading my dilemma.

Even though many people have told stories of how to come back from math pitfalls in high school, don't take the attitude of not trying. Just because it's "high school" doesn't mean it is worthless. Always strive to do the best you can.
 
  • #68
well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.:frown:
 
  • #69
kaos86 said:
well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.:frown:

What you should try to understand now but might not understand until at least four or five more years is that LEARNING is what is important, and not merely course credit. Additionally, one time through a course is not enough for some people in some courses. If certain course areas are difficult for you to pass, then you need to study both BEFORE enrolling and REPEAT some courses, either officially or unofficially or both officially AND unoffically.

In any case, spending more time TRYING in your trigonometry course will help you with familiarity when or if you actually repeat your Trigonometry course. In your current case, telling you just how to proceed in Trigonometry is not certain because of the possibility of misguidance; if you do not get a good grade, then at least you must study again but also search for any underlying weaknesses in prerequisite material.
 
  • #70
kaos86 said:
well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.:frown:

How many nights prior to the that 4th exam did you study? Just the night before? If so, I know for me, cramming Math is more confusing than not studying at all.

As for video games, if these are a problem and getting in the way of your studying, delete them. You don't have to throw them out, but just delete them for a period of time. Most games, especially the online ones, require a significant amount of time to reinstall (+30 min). This is due to software updates, downloading maps, etc. When I need that "quick fix" for a video game when I'm swamped, I realize that it's going to take more time to install the stupid thing than to play it. Which in turn = more studying. Goodluck.
 
  • #71
kaos86 said:
I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D".
If you stay up all night it's no wonder you fail. You need to take the time, start preparing on time and get a good night sleep before the test. Feeling tired isn't going to help you when doing hard things.

Also, feeling confident is important (even if you think you don't really master the material). If you think you suck and going to fail, well, you are. If you pretend to be the best math student that ever existed, you'll do a lot better on things you never even thought you could do.
 
  • #72
kaos86 said:
well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.:frown:

Have you at least asked the teacher for help? Or have you asked your buddies in the class to help you out? You'd be surprised at the response if you asked.

By the way, cramming for an obviously hard topic, all throughout the night before the test, is not a good idea. These methods of studying will not get you too far in life, or college.
 
  • #73
I got destroyed is maths are the start of what has turned into my physics adventure. I also got C for Maths
But now i have a Undergrad in physics, A Masters, PhD and have been in my dream job for 4 years now.

All i did was mainly teach myself and read about 3-4 books on area i was struggling on which helped. But in the end i went to the head of maths at my school and just asked for help (I found the head of the department to be a much better teacher as he still had passion for the subject)

But you can always retake maths it is no big deal at all, and should not stand in the the way of you becoming a physicist if you want it enough.

Hope this helps.
~N~
 
  • #74
Wellesley said:
If teachers could funnel this energy into the classroom, using practical, real world applications in math and science (among other topics), more kids would be interested in school at the very least.

And almost none do so, either they don't want to do it, or they don't know it, latter being more probable. One is very lucky if he gets a teacher like one mentioned above, fortunately my chemistry teacher in high school was just like that, exactly like that:approve:.

well, tomorrows the big final exam for trig(April 29). I know I'm going to fail this damn class. I wanted to study but for what? I already Know I'm going to fail the exam. Those of you who are wondering "why not study?" its because its hopeless. I've studied all through the night for the 4th exam and got a "D". I try, and I try some more. Yet, failure comes in my way with hard work and determination to grasp a career in physics. I feel down and angry. All I'm doing now is playing videos games and watch my dreams die in a wink of an eye.

studying all the time is not a solution, grabbing what one studies is. As calceus already pointed out, trigonometry is a only a one page theory, rest is practice. Relax a bit, format your trig drive:biggrin:, install a fresh copy of trigonometry, install drivers and run your program afresh. you ll do great:wink:. all the best
 
  • #75
I did it...I pulled a fast one and I DID IT!

Take a look...

http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grdes.jpg

I pulled an all night study for the finals and made it.

What I've learned from this:

1.) Videos games need to be restricted.(Play them on weekends is better.)

2.) Never be cocky in any class.
(I thought I was a math god because I passed college algebra with an "A".)

3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

4.) If I want to study Theoretical Physics, I need to be more serious about it.

Lesson learned! And I thank those who reply in this thread.

Thank you everyone for your tips and experiences. :smile:
 
  • #76
kaos86 said:
3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

and if you really want to improve practice things that are harder than what you're expected to do.
 
  • #77
kaos86 said:
I did it...I pulled a fast one and I DID IT!

Take a look...

http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grdes.jpg

I pulled an all night study for the finals and made it.

What I've learned from this:

1.) Videos games need to be restricted.(Play them on weekends is better.)

2.) Never be cocky in any class.
(I thought I was a math god because I passed college algebra with an "A".)

3.) Practice a lot. Practice makes perfect.

4.) If I want to study Theoretical Physics, I need to be more serious about it.

Lesson learned! And I thank those who reply in this thread.

Thank you everyone for your tips and experiences. :smile:

80% Yay! :approve:
 

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