Feeling Lost in My First Quarter at UW?

[Norman]

try reading this

http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/Lecture.pdf

This is a great read. I think it should be compulsory reading for all 1st year students at the beginning of each course.
Thank you Matt.
Cheers.

 

[devious_]

Having good social skills does not make you a good teacher.

 

[Norman]

I had some terrible professors-people who were just terrible, they were not interested in teaching students, but good researchers, so the college keeps them. I have learned. Now I do good research before taking a class. But I have had some good professors as well-like the man who wrote the mathematical logic book we were using-he was not above helping you and genuinely interested in your progress. I have also tended to notice that the good professors are usually very productive intellectually-it is true in Math, professors are there to just present the material-one has to ultimately do the work oneself, but there is a tremendous advantage to having a professor that is dedicated to teaching, especially during the first years of one's major when one is still in the formative stages.
But I do not think that it is asking too much of a professor to try to put in more effort.
Teaching is something that involves some commitment-those that put no effort in teaching ought to work in industry. Teaching is not like a business, and does entail some responsibility towards the students. I have also noticed that the best professors are also somehow also very productive intellectually, apart from teaching. I have never minded having a a difficult professor-provided they are fair. Most the bad professors I have had, do not seem to have done anything impressive in their fields.

Ah, thank you for clarifying your position. I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I get the impression that you are the type of student most teachers (at what ever level) enjoy to teach. I think that is a very interesting last statement that you made, but I have seen many exceptions to that rule. In the end, I believe, the majority of it comes down the willingness of a given lecturer to put forth the effort to be a decent teacher.

But I have to empathise with many lecturers (having done some of it myself). Teaching can be an exhausting thing. Especially the lower level classes. You can have 300 student to teach, and 50 of them are stopping by your office to beg for every little point on every exam (an extreme case, but I have witnessed it). In the end, you shouldn't judge too harshly until you have been in the same situation. That is the crux of what Matt Grime is saying here.

 

[Apost8]

I agree with what lunarmansion has put forth, in that it is not the academically difficult or rigorous professor anyone here has a gripe with, rather, it is the (again I stress *rare*) professor who doesn't "put forth the effort" as Norman puts it. I have nothing but respect for the 99% of professors who regularly exhibit their dedication to teaching and go above and beyond what is required of them.

I 'd like to add that it is likewise reasonable for any professor to expect and require a professional attitude from their students. Though this isn't usually a problem in a university setting, it does occur from time-to-time, and I empathize with any professor having to deal with it.

 

[matt grime]

Get social skills.

it is commonly observed that good mathematicians often have some form of aspergers, or mild autism, and are thus not equipped with such things. Perhaps you can offer something that does not discriminate amongst those of us with such a condition?

 

[FrogPad]

I had this a$$hole professor once. This guy in the class asked him a question, and the professor looked at him, said "are you serious?" shook his head, turned around, and kept writing on the chalk board. The guy who asked the question just looked around the room, to see everyones expressions. We were all dumbfounded.

I asked this same professor a question about an exam (during the exam time) about a question on the test. I asked him if he made a typo. He looked so angry that I would imply that there was a typo. He looked up at me with a disgusting look on his face and said "the exam is fine". About 10 minutes later, after 3 more people asked him questions (I'm assuming about the same problem), he stood up and said "Listen, the exam is fine. There is nothing wrong with it. Just take it, and hand it to me when you're done!"

On one of the questions I came up with this "complicated" (relative term of course) expression. Then when I plugged in the given values, I accidently plugged in a 5 instead of 50. He marked the question wrong. It was about a page of derivation, and then almost the last step was to plug in values, and he marked the entire thing off!

But get this. He was by far the BEST profesor I've ever had in my life. He was amazing for the following reasons:
1) He was very organized. Every lecture was very well put together.
2) He only used chalk, his notes, and a chalkboard. No power point.
3) The homework was very hard, but very interesting. If you could get through the homework, then you would understand the material.
4) He had complete control of the classroom. I can't imagine what he would have done if someone left their phone on during class :)
5) The fact that he marked tests so hard, really taught me to just take my time and get what I have correct. He was definitely not a professor that you could just show some work, and expect partial credit. It was either right or wrong in his eyes.
6) He also had the mindset of, there actually is in fact dumb questions.

 

[JasonRox]

it is commonly observed that good mathematicians often have some form of aspergers, or mild autism, and are thus not equipped with such things. Perhaps you can offer something that does not discriminate amongst those of us with such a condition?

I wasn't aware of this, so how would that be discrimination?

Regardless, I still think it's the first step. If you have a disability that prevents you from achieving that step, you will have a hard time teaching.

I might not even have the opportunity to teach a course. I will become deaf at some point, but I'm not sure when. Let's hope it holds out with another 10 years.

When that day comes (if it does, surgery may help), I will have great difficulty teaching. I will lack communication skills, which leads to lower social skills. It can not be avoided. It's just the way it.

Social skills are still important and probably the most important. It's part of knowing how to communicate and what to communicate, which both play a large roles in teaching.

 

[matt grime]

For Frogpad - there are indeed dumb questions. Anyone who says otherwise is being far too polite. It should be noted that 'dumb' is often misconstrued for 'elementary' or 'simple'. No one ever thinks ill of someone asking for elucidation on a point, or asking for it to be reiterated.

An important moral is always ask the professor. Every mathematician likes talking about maths (especially if it makes them look cleverer).

And Jason, you are mistaken if you think it is social skills that matter in teaching mathematics at university. An understanding of the subject, a love of it, and the ability to communicate mathematics are essential, and it doesn't matter if you can or cannot hold a (social) conversation with a lamp post. Some of the greatest teachers of mathematics are incapable of holding down any other job than academic mathematician. Yet they can hold the attention of an audience like no one else. (An interested audience, obviously.) Why? How? It is undefinable, sadly. Somehow they are able to get to the very essence of the material in a manner that escapes many of the best mathematicians around. I have yet to meet a good teacher of mathematics who is a bad mathematician. One difficulty for some mathematicians is understanding that to the lecture audience this subject might not be that simple. I know that I for one would make a terrible teacher of maths at high school level in the UK; a similar experience to teaching in certain American universities, actually.

I also find it interesting that you (Jason) are now implying that you haven't taught. What is it you consider, or don't consider teaching?

 

[FrogPad]

An important moral is always ask the professor. Every mathematician likes talking about maths (especially if it makes them look cleverer).

lol matt

Sometimes I wish math professors would stop trying to be so clever and just teach it to me like I'm a machine. That's probably why I'm doing engineering ;)

 

[oksanav]

Learning comes down to both the teacher and student paying attention to each other.The teacher has to know what is actally being understood, and therefore the student needs to ask questions if something isn't-- not just a blank stare. The student has some responsibility in the learning process too!:)

 

[JasonRox]

I also find it interesting that you (Jason) are now implying that you haven't taught. What is it you consider, or don't consider teaching?

I never said or implied I never taught. I meant what I said. Teaching a full course, where it's all me.

Lots of what you said is true, but I still think social skills play a keep role. Social skills also have nothing to do with talking to someone one-on-one with a lamp post. I'm talking about social skills in the context of communicating with an audience.

 

[JasonRox]

The teacher has to know what is actally being understood, and therefore the student needs to ask questions if something isn't-- not just a blank stare.

Yes, we don't want students doing that, but they do it and we should try our best to work around that.

I communicate with the audience all the time. What I mean by that is that I actively ask them questions and whether or not they have questions. Then, when explaining it to them, I do my best to understand what they might be thinking as I'm solving/explaining it. Hence, knowing a bit about body language, which should come natural (unless a disability restricts you from doing so).

There is a famous saying that 90% of communication is body language and 10% is verbal. So, the audience can be spitting out massive amounts of body language that is saying "I do not understand", but if you lack the skill to interpret this (learned through social activies), then you'll be waiting for that 10% to pop up. Will that 10% ever pop up? Probably not because the whole class is aware that they are projecting "I do not understand" body language in massive amounts. Therefore, contrary to popular belief that if one student asks a question, the whole class doesn't understand, it's more like that student only or a few others doesn't understand and feel that the body language of not understanding isn't being projected enough, so they get direct communication by asking a question.

Honestly, this is what I perceive. It seems to be true. Next time, when a student asks a question, ask if another in the class can answer that question for them. Bring them up to explain it. Nervous they might be, but a more comfortable atmosphere it will become. (Can't be done with 200 people in the class, well I hope to do it in graduate school.)

 

[Pythagorean]

when I was talking about bad teachers, I had something a little more severe in mind.

My diff eq teacher had a thick Russian accent, smelled like vodka and cranberry juice every morning, and when asked questions replied "it is seemple!" and then waited for a minute, and continued on.

A chemistry teacher at our school (organic chemistry) flies through slides on the cd that comes with the textbook, doesn't help people personally (tells them they should get it if they've taken notes and read the chapters), and makes fun of his students in public. This is heresay from a sample of about five people.

 

[interested_learner]

Hasn't changed

I went to the UW! Sounds like it hasn't changed a bit. Good luck.

 

[oksanav]

Therefore, contrary to popular belief that if one student asks a question, the whole class doesn't understand, it's more like that student only or a few others doesn't understand and feel that the body language of not understanding isn't being projected enough, so they get direct communication by asking a question.

Though this is sometimes the case, in my experience the opposite is true most of the time. I am the question asker in my classes, and while at first I felt like everyone else understood it, most of them have made it clear they are glad I ask the questions because they're just as lost. Before the teacher walks in the room everyones talking about what they don't understand and how lost they are, but as soon as he comes in they shut up and never ask their questions. I don't understand why they're so shy. When somebody asks a question others do get, those who do answer the question, and it is usually better than anything the teacher says. Be warned of the body language sometimes though, because at my school I know most of the guys just non their heads in understanding even when they don't, because they don't want to interact and the teacher find out they haven't read the chapter or something, lol. Maybe my school isn't the best sampling though.

 

[JasonRox]

Be warned of the body language sometimes though, because at my school I know most of the guys just non their heads in understanding even when they don't, because they don't want to interact and the teacher find out they haven't read the chapter or something, lol. Maybe my school isn't the best sampling though.

Body language determines whether or not you understand whether or not you try to look like you understand or not. It's subconscious.

I'm not sure why some students are shy. I don't mind looking like a fool. Sometimes I go to class so tired, yawning like crazy, and I'll speak up answers just to get the lecture rolling. Sometimes they are wrong, but I don't mind. I just hate waiting until someone has the courage to speak up, which may never happen sadly. I never thought it took courage to say a few words, but I guess nowadays that's a lot to ask.

 

[oksanav]

Whenever I miss a class, the next day the teacher is so happy to see me, and says he missed me in class because it was pretty quiet, lol. Perhaps it's the "decline in social skills because of the internet" thing they keep talking about. The older teachers seem to be the ones who expect more involvement, maybe there used to be more?

 

[Poop-Loops]

try reading this

http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/Lecture.pdf

This doesn't do me any good. He only gives out a formula or two (astro prof, I mean) per class and doesn't go over it. On the homework when you need to use it, it turns out to be something different than what the book has. By a lot. It's mainly the fact that he doesn't go over the stuff that will be on the homework.

For example, last Thursday he started going over equations that we need to use for the homework. The same homework that was due at the start of that class.

Sorry, crappy profs exist. I give people lots of leeway because I don't usually pay attention and just read the book. But when other people come up to me and say "do you get what he's asking for #1? I tried emailing him, but he wouldn't respond and I can't come to his office hours (because of class I'm assuming)", something is wrong.

And I actually sit up front, but can't stay awake for the life of me.

 

[Poop-Loops]

it is commonly observed that good mathematicians often have some form of aspergers, or mild autism, and are thus not equipped with such things. Perhaps you can offer something that does not discriminate amongst those of us with such a condition?

Next you'll want people without legs to have special accomodations during the 400m in the Olympics.

I am paying money for an education here. If it means hiring people who are fully capable of teaching, then so be it.

 

[JasonRox]

Next you'll want people without legs to have special accomodations during the 400m in the Olympics.

I am paying money for an education here. If it means hiring people who are fully capable of teaching, then so be it.

I agree with this too.

I have big challenges ahead of myself with my disability, but if I'm determined, I can still be a great teacher.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. It's one thing to want to play guitar even though you only have one arm. It's your goal. But if you want to do something like teach, be a fireman, surgeon, etc., you have to understand that your actions will effect other people. You HAVE TO be up to par.

Good luck, Jason. And you get bonus points for actually TRYING. It really doesn't seem like my prof cares that much. =/

 

[JasonRox]

Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. It's one thing to want to play guitar even though you only have one arm. It's your goal. But if you want to do something like teach, be a fireman, surgeon, etc., you have to understand that your actions will effect other people. You HAVE TO be up to par.

Good luck, Jason. And you get bonus points for actually TRYING. It really doesn't seem like my prof cares that much. =/

I care only to the point that students care actually. Since there are students in the class that want to do well, I make sure that I'm prepared before class, and have my ideas to share in order.

It would be more fun if the students had an endless number of questions though. That would make my job easier.

 

[TMFKAN64]

You know, I remember back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and I was a grad student, the university I attended had an annual award for the outstanding teacher. Among the faculty, it was widely considered the kiss of death, since no one who won the award was ever granted tenure.

(Of course, this was probably an exaggeration... but like many urban legends, there is a grain of truth at its core... while being while a professor involves both teaching and research, one of these is usually more valued than the other, depending on the particular institution.)