Fick's 1st/2nd Law: Explaining the Sign Difference

  • Thread starter Thread starter asdf1
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Law
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between Fick's 1st and 2nd laws of diffusion, specifically addressing the presence of a negative sign in the first law and the treatment of the diffusion constant (D) as a constant versus a variable. Participants explore the implications of these differences in the context of steady-state and non-steady-state diffusion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why Fick's 1st law includes a negative sign while Fick's 2nd law does not.
  • Another participant suggests that the negative sign in the 1st law relates to the decrease in concentration as distance from the source increases, indicating a steady-state condition.
  • It is proposed that the 1st law applies to steady-state diffusion where concentration does not change over time, thus making D a constant.
  • In contrast, the 2nd law is described as applicable to non-steady-state diffusion, where concentration can vary with time, leading to D being treated as a variable.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the insights shared regarding these concepts.
  • Further questions are raised about the types of diffusion constants and the boundary conditions for the validity of both laws.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the negative sign and the nature of the diffusion constant in the context of the two laws. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the assumptions underlying the application of Fick's laws, nor have they established the specific conditions under which each law is valid.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in diffusion processes, particularly in physics and engineering contexts, may find this discussion relevant.

asdf1
Messages
734
Reaction score
0
Why does Fick's 1st law have a negative sign in the equation, but Fick's
2nd law doesn't?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
also one more question:
Why's the D in Fick's 1st law a constant, but a variable in Fick's 2nd law?
 
hmm

far from an expert, but here is my best guess

for your first question:

in the 1st law, we're looking at steady state diffusion, and how the concentrations vary with respect to position

so, the concentration of the other substance will be decreasing as you go further and furthery away from it, hence the negative sign

in the 2nd law, we are looking at concertration with respect to time and it may be increasing or decreasing
for your second question:

the 1st law is used for steady state diffusion (concentration does not change with respect to time), that's why D is a constant

2nd law is used for non-steady state diffusion, where the concentration does depend on time,
 
wow! thank you very much! I've been thinking about that question for many days...
 
what kind of diffusion constants do you know? what physical parameters does the diffusion constant depend on?
 
what are the boundary condition of the validity of fick's first and 2nd law?
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
964
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K