Field of Moving Masses: EM Purcell

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analogy between electromagnetic (EM) radiation produced by moving charges and gravitational radiation emitted by moving masses. Participants explore the theoretical implications of this analogy, particularly in the context of gravitational waves as described in EM Purcell's work on electricity and magnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a moving mass, similar to a moving charge, generates a wave-front of gravitational waves.
  • Others argue that while mass acts as the "charge" of gravity, the emission of gravitational waves is typically negligible, which may explain the delay in their detection.
  • There is a suggestion that the equations governing the field of a moving mass can be derived analogously to those for EM radiation, although it is noted that this is more complicated for gravity.
  • One participant highlights that gravitational radiation is described by a quadrupole formula, unlike EM radiation which follows a dipole formula, indicating a fundamental difference in the nature of these radiations.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the conservation of momentum in scenarios involving moving masses, suggesting that a mass cannot simply stop without a cause, which complicates the formulation of the problem in terms of gravitational radiation.
  • Technical details are mentioned regarding the necessity of a non-zero third time derivative of the quadrupole moment for gravitational radiation to occur, drawing a parallel to the changing dipole moment required for EM radiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the analogy between EM and gravitational radiation, with some acknowledging similarities while others emphasize significant differences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise nature of gravitational radiation and the conditions under which it can be emitted.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the conservation of momentum in theoretical scenarios and the complexity of deriving equations for gravitational radiation compared to EM radiation. There is also mention of higher-order moments in gravitational radiation that complicate the analogy.

Supantho Raxit
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
A moving charge that starts or stops generates a spherical wave-front of EM wave, can the same analogy be drawn for a moving mass?

Reference: Electricity & Magnetism by EM Purcell
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It will emit gravitational waves, yes, mass is the "charge" of gravity. Usually that is completely negligible.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Supantho Raxit
So, by drawing analogy with EM, I can easily find the eqn of field of a moving mass, the power radiated or other quantities ?
And, as this is highly negligible, is that the reason why it took so long to detect it?
 
Supantho Raxit said:
So, by drawing analogy with EM, I can easily find the eqn of field of a moving mass, the power radiated or other quantities ?
It is a bit more complicated for gravity, but yes, in principle it is possible.
Supantho Raxit said:
And, as this is highly negligible, is that the reason why it took so long to detect it?
Right. You need really massive objects accelerating really fast to produce notable gravitational waves.
 
Supantho Raxit said:
So, by drawing analogy with EM, I can easily find the eqn of field of a moving mass, the power radiated or other quantities ?
And, as this is highly negligible, is that the reason why it took so long to detect it?

The analogy isn't quite perfect - gravitational radiation is given by a quadrupole formula, EM radiation by a dipole formula. This is related to the issue that you just can't have a moving mass stop for no reason, the conservation of momentum is built into the Einstein field equations, and a mass stopping with no cause is therefore not a solution of Einstein's field equations. So you need to reformulate your test problem in a way that conserves momentum in order to actually solve the equations and get out a number for gravitational radiation.

See for instance the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave
More technically, the third time derivative of the quadrupole moment ... of an isolated system's stress–energy tensor must be non-zero in order for it to emit gravitational radiation. This is analogous to the changing dipole moment of charge or current that is necessary for the emission of electromagnetic radiation.

I snipped some confusing parts of the wiki article that relate to higher order moments. A slightly better statement of what I snipped is is from http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~kokkotas/Teaching/NS.BH.GW_files/GW_Physics.pdf

It follows that gravitational radiation is of quadrupolar or higher nature and is directly linked to the quadrupole moment of the mass distribution.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: mfb and Supantho Raxit

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
8K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K