Find All Pairs (m,n) with mn-1 Dividing n^3+1

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter eddybob123
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding all ordered pairs (m,n) such that mn-1 divides n^3+1. Participants explore the implications of the problem, including potential restrictions on the values of m and n, and the nature of divisibility in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the meaning of "divides," suggesting it implies no remainder, and questions whether m and n are restricted to specific sets of numbers (e.g., real, rational, integers, natural numbers).
  • Another participant proposes a solution under the assumption that m and n are integers, presenting a list of small pairs that satisfy the condition.
  • Hints provided in the original post suggest writing the expression in a specific form and indicate a symmetry in the solutions, where if (m,n) is a solution, then (n,m) is also a solution.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the hints, particularly about which expression to manipulate and the implications of the hints for finding solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the restrictions for m and n, with some assuming integers while others consider broader sets. There is also uncertainty regarding the interpretation of the hints provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not clarified the assumptions regarding the types of numbers m and n can take, nor have they resolved the mathematical steps necessary to fully explore the problem.

eddybob123
Messages
177
Reaction score
0
Find all ordered pairs (m,n) such that mn-1 divides n^3+1.

Hint #1:
Write the expression as a+bn for some coefficients a and b.[/color]

Hint #2:
Show that if (m,n) is a solution, then (n,m) is also a solution.[/color]

Good luck!
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I'm awful at math(s) but I'll give this one a shot since no one else has, as of yet. Maybe I'll learn something new along the way.

eddybob123 said:
Find all ordered pairs (m,n) such that mn-1 divides n^3+1.
Do you mean, "divides evenly," as in no remainder? I mean in normal arithmetic, any number can divide any other number (as long as the divisor [denominator] is not zero); there just might be a remainder is all.

From here on, I'll just assume you mean "divides evenly."

Also, is there any restriction on the cardinality of m and n? I mean, are they restricted to be real numbers? rational numbers? integers? natural numbers?

I'll just assume complex numbers to be more general, but I believe this solution is the same for any cardinality above the integers.

Hint #1:
Write the expression as a+bn for some coefficients a and b.[/color]
Reply to Hint #1:
Write what expression? You mean the (n3 + 1)/(mn - 1) expression? I'm not sure I follow your hint here.[/color]

Hint #2:
Show that if (m,n) is a solution, then (n,m) is also a solution.[/color]
Reply to Hint #2:
I'm afraid I don't really follow this hint either.[/color]

Here's my attempted solution (for rational, real or complex m and n).

Since we want the expressions to divide evenly, it means we place restrictions on n and m, to produce a natural number k, (k: k = 1, 2, 3, ...) such that

...k = (n3 + 1)/(mn - 1).

We also note that we can't have a zero in the denominator, so there is a further restriction that m1/n. That gives us,

...k = (n3 + 1)/(mn - 1); (m: m1/n).

Solving for m,

...m = (n3 + 1 + k)/(kn); (m: m1/n). [Edit: and it almost goes without saying that n ≠ 0]

A little substitution shows, 1/n ≠ (n3 + 1 + k)/(kn) → n ≠ -1.

So the final ordered pairs are:

...( (n3 + 1 + k)/(kn), n ),

such that,
n is any rational, real or complex number, with the restriction that n ≠ -1, [also n ≠ 0].
k is any natural number. (i.e., k = 1, 2, 3, ...).

[Edit: n ≠ 0 too. So n ≠ -1, n ≠ 0.]
 
Last edited:
Here's a half-baked answer if we restrict m and n to the domain of integers:

We know that n ≠ 0, n ≠ -1 from the last post, but I'll include those in the domain of my answer anyway. Just note that there are no valid, ordered pairs at those locations where n = 0 or -1.

Valid, ordered pairs for n ≥ -1:
(2, 1), (2, 2), (3, 1), (5, 2), (5, 3)

Valid, ordered pairs for n < -1:
(1 - n, n)

Notice that there's an infinite, yet countable number of ordered pairs for n < -1. Examples include (3, -2), (4, -3), (5, -4), (6, -5), ...

I have a proof to show that those ordered pairs exist and are valid, but I haven't yet proved that they are the only ones. (I'm suspecting they might be though).
 
Last edited:
Those puzzles usually imply that m and n are natural numbers (or at least integers).

Small pairs: (1,2), (2,1), (1,3), (3,1), (2,2), (2,5), (5,2), (3,5), (5,3). If there are more, they have to have n>32 or m>32.[/color]

It is clear that n^3 +1 = (n+1)(n^2-n+1) and nm-1 is not a divisor of one of those factors (apart from n=2), but how can we show that it cannot be a divisor of the product as a whole, if nm-1 is not a prime number?
 
I searched all possible positive-integer solutions up to n = 2000, and these {n,m} pairs are the only ones that I found:
{{1,2},{1,3},{2,1},{2,2},{2,5},{3,1},{3,5},{5,2},{5,3}}

I did it first with Mathematica, going up to 100, then with C++, going up to 2000. With C++, I had to be careful to use "long long" 64-bit integers. However, with a 2-GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, it took 1m 8s of CPU time. Search time goes as O(n^3).

I conjecture that these are the only solutions.

But among these solutions, if {n,m} is a solution, then {m,n} is also a solution.
 
Last edited:
I did a run up to n = 10,000. It took 2 hr 15 min of CPU time. No additional solutions.

However, I've been totally stumped by
n*m-1 evenly dividing n^3+1
implying
n*m-1 evenly dividing m^3+1.

I've also had no progress in proving that the solutions I'd found are the only solutions.
 
Trying eddybob123's first hint, let
(n3+1) - (n*m-1) * (a*n+b) = 0
where 0 <= b < n and a,b are nonnegative integers. Expanding gives (b+1) + n*(some integer) = 0, implying that b = n-1.

This inspires a form for that ratio, so let's try
(n3+1) - (n*m-1) * (n*k-1) = 0
for positive-integer k. For nonzero n, it becomes
n2 - n*m*k + m + k = 0
So if {n,m} is a solution, then {n,k} is also a solution.

It's hard for me to proceed further, however. Here are the {n,m,k} values that I'd found:
{1,2,3},{1,3,2},{2,1,5},{2,2,2},{2,5,1},{3,1,5},{3,5,1},{5,2,3},{5,3,2}
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K