Find locus of points near ellipse with some condition

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding the locus of points from which two tangents can be drawn to an ellipse defined by the equation ##\frac{x^2}{a^2} + \frac{y^2}{b^2} = 1##, where ##a \ne b##. The specific conditions for the slopes of the tangents are that they are either reciprocals or negative reciprocals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive an equation involving only the variables ##h, k, a, b## by using the equations of tangents and the conditions on their slopes. Some participants suggest using angle substitutions to simplify the algebra, while others express uncertainty about eliminating certain variables.

Discussion Status

The discussion has seen various approaches to the problem, including attempts to simplify the algebraic expressions and explore the implications of the tangent conditions. Some participants have proposed specific forms for the locus based on their findings, but there is no explicit consensus on the final outcomes yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of deriving equations from the conditions of tangents to the ellipse, with some noting the challenge of eliminating multiple variables from their equations.

issacnewton
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Homework Statement


Given an ellipse ##\frac{x^2}{a^2} + \frac{y^2}{b^2} = 1## , where ##a \ne b##, find the equation of the set of all points from which there are two tangents to the curve whose slopes are (a) reciprocals and (b) negative reciprocals

Homework Equations


Equation of a tangent to an ellipse at a point ##(x_o, y_o)## is ##\frac{x x_o}{a^2} + \frac{y y_o}{b^2}=1##

The Attempt at a Solution


Here is my attempt for the solution for (a). Let ##(h,k)## be the point from where we will have the two tangents to the ellipse ##\frac{x^2}{a^2} + \frac{y^2}{b^2} = 1##. Let these two tangents meet the ellipse at points ##(x_1,y_1)## and ##(x_2, y_2)##. So the equations of these tangents are ##\frac{x x_1}{a^2} + \frac{y y_1}{b^2}=1## and ##\frac{x x_2}{a^2} + \frac{y y_2}{b^2}=1##. Now ##(h,k)## lies on these tangents. So we must have ##\frac{h x_1}{a^2} + \frac{k y_1}{b^2}=1## and ##\frac{h x_2}{a^2} + \frac{k y_2}{b^2}=1##. Also the slopes of these tangents are ##m_1 = -\left( \frac{b^2 x_1}{a^2 y_1} \right)## and ##m_2 = -\left( \frac{b^2 x_2}{a^2 y_2} \right)##. Since the product of the slopes is 1, we must have $$\left( \frac{b^2 x_1}{a^2 y_1} \right)\left( \frac{b^2 x_2}{a^2 y_2} \right) = 1\cdots\cdots(1)$$ Also the points ##(x_1, y_1)## and ##(x_2, y_2)## lie on the ellipse, so they satisfy the equation of the ellipse $$\frac{x_1^2}{a^2} + \frac{y_1^2}{b^2} = 1\cdots\cdots(2)$$
$$\frac{x_2^2}{a^2} + \frac{y_2^2}{b^2} = 1\cdots\cdots(3)$$ After this I did lot of algebra and tried to get an equation involving only ##h,k,a,b## , but I am unable to eliminate the variables ##x_1,y_1,x_2,y_2##. I think at this point I have all the information I need to solve this problem. Any hints to further this problem will be helpful.
Thanks
 
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IssacNewton said:
I am unable to eliminate the variables ##x_1,y_1,x_2,y_2##.
You have five equations, so you should in principle be able to eliminate those vars and have the one equation left.
I tried substituting y1=b sin(θ1) etc. It made the algebra a lot easier, but I just ended up with the problem of eliminating the two angles.
 
Ok, Haruspex I will try to use angles and see if I can get any improvement.
 
IssacNewton said:
Ok, Haruspex I will try to use angles and see if I can get any improvement.
For what it's worth, my guess is rectangular hyperbola.
 
Ok, I found the solution and I am presenting here. Ellipse is ##\frac{x^2}{a^2}+\frac{y^2}{b^2}=1##. Let the tangent to ellipse be ##y = mx+c##. At the point of intersection, both of these equations must be satisfied. So we have ##\frac{x^2}{a^2} + \frac{(mx+c)^2}{b^2}=1##. This can be simplified as $$(b^2 + m^2a^2)x^2 + (2mca^2)x + (a^2c^2 - a^2b^2) = 0\cdots\cdots(1)$$ Now tangent touches at a single point to the ellipse, so roots of the above quadratic equation can not be distinct. Fo this to happen, we must have discriminant equal to ##0##. So we have $$(2mca^2)^2 - 4(b^2 + m^2a^2)(a^2c^2- a^2b^2)=0 \cdots\cdots(2)$$ Simplifying this, we have ##c^2 = b^2 + m^2a^2##. Now let ##(h,k)## be an external point to the ellipse from where we draw the tangent. So ##(h,k)## must lie on the line ##y = mx+c##. Therefore ##k = mh+c##. This leads to $$(k-mh)^2 = c^2 = b^2+m^2a^2 $$ Expanding, we get $$ (h^2- a^2)m^2 - 2mhk + (k^2 - b^2) = 0$$ This is a quadratic equation in ##m##, since we have two tangents from an external point to this ellipse. Now from the theory of quadratic equations, the product of roots is given by $$m_1m_2 = \frac{k^2 - b^2}{h^2 - a^2}$$ Now in part (a), this product is equal to 1. This leads us to ##h^2 - k^2 = a^2 - b^2##. So the locus of points here is ##x^2 - y^2 = a^2 - b^2##, which is a hyperbola. For part (b), the product is equal to -1, which leads to ##h^2 + k^2 = a^2 + b^2##. So the locus of points here is ##x^2 + y^2 = a^2 + b^2##. This is a circle. I found a question on stack exchange which helped me solve this problem. Here is the Link

Thanks
 
IssacNewton said:
which is a hyperbola
in particular, a rectangular hyperbola
 

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