Find the distance x so that the two frictional forces are equal

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving frictional forces and moments in a system with horizontal acceleration. Participants are exploring the conditions under which two frictional forces are equal, considering the implications of angular acceleration and the choice of pivot points in their calculations.

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Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the setup of normal forces and moments, questioning the assumptions made regarding static versus dynamic conditions. There are attempts to clarify the role of angular acceleration and the implications of choosing different pivot points for moment calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the mechanics involved. Some have made progress in their calculations, while others are still grappling with the concepts of angular acceleration and its relevance to their problem-solving approach.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential carelessness in arithmetic and the need to consider angular acceleration when selecting pivot points. The original poster's confusion regarding the answer key suggests a possible misalignment in understanding the problem's dynamics.

Ithilrandir
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Homework Statement
A rocket-powered high speed sled running on rails employs pivot shoes between the sled and the rails, as shown in the figure. Each shoe has replaceable running pads at the heel and toe. The coefficient of friction between the running pads and the rail is μ. The rate at which the running pad material is worn off during the operation of the rocket sled is proportional to the friction force acting on the rubbing pad. If the shoe pivot point is at a given height h above the rail surface, at what horizontal distance, x, from the vertical centreline between the two rubbing pads should the pivot point P be placed do that the two rubbing pads will wear away at the same rate?

W: that portion of the weight of the rocket sled carried by the shoe in the diagram
H: horizontal component of force at the shoe pivot point
ℓ : total length between centres of the two rubbing pads
Relevant Equations
...
Letting the normal force on the pad on the left be 1 and the one on the right be 2,

Normal force R1 + R2 = W

Since the sled is not rotating, net moment =0,

Taking moment about the right pad,

W(ℓ/2 + x) - Hh - R1ℓ =0

R1 = W/2 + Wx/ℓ - Hh/ℓ

Since the rate of the pads being worn is proportional to the frictional force, for the rate to be the same the frictional force on both sides needs to be the same as well.

R1 = R2 = W/2

Putting this back in the previous equation,

You get Wx/ℓ = Hh/ℓ,
x = Hh/W

However in the answer key the answer is μh. What am I missing in my steps?
 

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It is not a statics question. There is a horizontal acceleration.
If you take moments about a point not on the same horizontal as the mass centre, there is a net moment producing an angular acceleration about the point.
 
haruspex said:
It is not a statics question. There is a horizontal acceleration.
If you take moments about a point not on the same horizontal as the mass centre, there is a net moment producing an angular acceleration about the point.
Does this mean that if I take the pivot at the centre of mass, there would not be any net moment?
 
Ithilrandir said:
Does this mean that if I take the pivot at the centre of mass, there would not be any net moment?
I seemed to have gotten the answer by taking the pivot at the point P. The only thing that is off is that I got a negative answer.
 
Ithilrandir said:
I seemed to have gotten the answer by taking the pivot at the point P. The only thing that is off is that I got a negative answer.
Well, that's progress.
If you cannot resolve it, please post your working.
 
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haruspex said:
Well, that's progress.
If you cannot resolve it, please post your working.

I noticed I had just been careless in my arithmetic and forgot to change the signs when bringing terms from one side to the next. So my answer has no issues.
 
Ithilrandir said:
I noticed I had just been careless in my arithmetic and forgot to change the signs when bringing terms from one side to the next. So my answer has no issues.
Very good.
Do you understand about the angular acceleration?
 
haruspex said:
Very good.
Do you understand about the angular acceleration?
I didn't make use of angular acceleration in my calculations, so no. I just took into account of friction when I calculated the moment about point P.
 
Ithilrandir said:
I didn't make use of angular acceleration in my calculations, so no. I just took into account of friction when I calculated the moment about point P.
Sure, but I am asking if you understand why you need to allow for an angular acceleration if you choose some other axis.
 
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haruspex said:
Sure, but I am asking if you understand why you need to allow for an angular acceleration if you choose some other axis.
I'm thinking it's because the net movement is from the centre of mass, motions from other points of reference will essentially have an added rotational element.
 
  • #11
Ithilrandir said:
I'm thinking it's because the net movement is from the centre of mass, motions from other points of reference will essentially have an added rotational element.
Yes. E.g. if an object mass m is moving horizontally at velocity v, height y above the ground, then it has angular momentum mvy about an axis below it on the ground.
 
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