Find the final temperature of water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem concerning the calculation of the final temperature of water after steam loses energy. Participants explore the energy changes involved in the phase transition from steam to water and subsequent cooling, focusing on the application of thermodynamic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the approach to solving the problem, indicating the need to account for energy changes during the phase transition from steam to water and the cooling process.
  • Another participant agrees that all energy quantities (Q) should be negative, as they represent energy loss during cooling and condensation.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the calculated unknown delta T being above the boiling point, questioning the assumption that the substance is fully in liquid form.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the calculations presented, with a request for more detailed explanations and units in the setup.
  • One participant points out that the delta T calculated is for the cooling after reaching 100°C, suggesting a misunderstanding in the interpretation of the temperature change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for negative values for energy changes due to cooling and phase changes. However, there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of the final state of the substance and the implications of the calculated temperature change.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations lack units, which may lead to confusion. The discussion also highlights the importance of clarity in presenting mathematical setups, especially in academic contexts.

jwxie
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Homework Statement



What is the final temperature of water if 175 g steam at 150 C loses 423 KJ of energy?

Homework Equations


Q = M *C_p * Δ T
Q = m * heat of (phase_change)

The Attempt at a Solution



This is how I would go about solving this problem.

Going from steam to water requires energy of two types:
  1. Going from steam to water --> Q = m * heat of vap
  2. Cooling from 150C to 100C --> Q = m * Specific heat of steam * Δ T

Furthermore, we are told that steam is finally in the form of water, which has an unknown final temperature, so we have
Q = m * specific heat of water * ΔT

Add them together, and equates with the heat loss (which is given)

- 423KJ = Q (from steam to water) + Q (cooling from 150 to 100) + Q (cooling from 100 to unknown final temperature)

Is this correct?

If it is, my question would be: is it also correct to make Q (from steam to water) negative? I don't remember seeing heat of condensation. Can I make heat of evaporation negative in this case?

Anything else needs to be negative also?

Thank you.
 
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You are on the right track. All the Q's will be negative, since cooling to lower temperatures and condensing form vapor to liquid all involve loss of energy.
 
Redbelly98 said:
You are on the right track. All the Q's will be negative, since cooling to lower temperatures and condensing form vapor to liquid all involve loss of energy.

Thanks. But if all Qs are negative, unknown delta T is x = 13.6575
It is still above the boiling point though.
I thought it was safe to assume that it is no longer steam, but water, fully in liquid form.\\

Here is my setup
-423000 = (-2260 * 175g) + (-2.0 * 50 *175) + (-4.184 * 175 * x)
x = delta T = 13.6575
Hence, 150 - 13.6575.

THanks.
 
jwxie said:
I thought it was safe to assume that it is no longer steam

Apparently it was not safe :-p

-423000 = (-2260 * 175g) + (-2.0 * 50 *175) + (-4.184 * 175 * x)

I wanted to check the result, but this is as cryptic as it can be - no units, no explanation of what is what. Sorry, I am not going to take off my tin foil hat to read your mind, it is too noisy out there.
 
jwxie said:
Thanks. But if all Qs are negative, unknown delta T is x = 13.6575
It is still above the boiling point though.
I thought it was safe to assume that it is no longer steam, but water, fully in liquid form.\\

Here is my setup
-423000 = (-2260 * 175g) + (-2.0 * 50 *175) + (-4.184 * 175 * x)
x = delta T = 13.6575
Hence, 150 - 13.6575.

THanks.
Looks about right, except for one detail: earlier you (correctly) wrote:
- 423KJ = Q (from steam to water) + Q (cooling from 150 to 100) + Q (cooling from 100 to unknown final temperature)
So x is the temperature change after the water has reached 100 C.

By the way, Borek has a good point. Including units would be helpful and depending on who is grading your assignment -- or an exam you take in the future -- you might lose points by just writing down numbers without units.
 

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