Find the value of ##a, b## and ##k## in the problem involving graphs

  • Thread starter Thread starter chwala
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    equation Roots
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the values of ##a, b##, and ##k## in the context of a polynomial equation with specified roots. The problem involves analyzing the behavior of the graph based on its roots and the implications of different assumptions regarding the relationships between ##a## and ##b##.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore two main assumptions regarding the relationships between ##a## and ##b##, leading to different equations for ##k##. There are discussions about the implications of these assumptions on the graph's behavior and the nature of the roots.

Discussion Status

Some participants suggest that one of the assumptions leads to a contradiction, while others emphasize the importance of graphing to verify the results. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of double roots and turning points in the context of the polynomial's graph.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may involve constraints related to homework rules, and there is a mention of the need for justifying answers in an exam context. The discussion also touches on the potential for different interpretations of the problem setup.

chwala
Gold Member
Messages
2,828
Reaction score
425
Homework Statement
See attached
Relevant Equations
Graphs
1700644817610.png


In my approach i have the roots of the equation being ##x=a## and ##x=b##.

There are two assumptions,
In the first assumption,

##a=\dfrac{1}{2}b##

##2a=b##

then,

##4=k(-a)^2(-2a)##

##4=-2ka^3##

##⇒ -2=ka^3##

Now since ##2a=b## then ##a=1, b=2⇒k=-2##.

our equation becomes,

##f(x)=-2(x-1)^2(x-2)##

checking using,

##f(1.5)=-2(1.5-1)^2(1.5-2)=0.25>0##

Now to the second assumption,
Let

##b=\dfrac{1}{2}a##

##2b=a##

then,

##4=k(-2b)^2(-b)##

##4=-4kb^3##

##⇒ -1=kb^3##

Now since ##2b=a## then ##b=1, a=2 ⇒k=-1##.

Our equation becomes,

##f(x)=-1(x-2)^2(x-1)##

checking using,

##f(1.5)=-2(1.5-1)^2(1.5-2)=-0.125 <0## which is a contradiction as ##y## is positive between the roots ##x=1## and ##x=2##.
Therefore the second assumption does not apply. We shall therefore have the unknown values given by:

##a=1, b=2, k=-2##.

There may be a better approach.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
chwala said:
Homework Statement: See attached
Relevant Equations: Graphs

View attachment 335943

In my approach i have the roots of the equation being ##x=a## and ##x=b##.

There are two possibilities,
In the first possibility,

##a=\dfrac{1}{2}b##

##2a=b##

then,

##4=k(-a)^2(-2a)##

##4=-2ka^3##

##⇒ -2=ka^3##

Now since ##2a=b## then ##a=1, b=2⇒k=-2##.

our equation becomes,

##f(x)=-2(x-1)^2(x-2)##

checking using,

##f(1.5)=-2(1.5-1)^2(1.5-2)=0.25>0##

Now to the second possibility,
Let

##b=\dfrac{1}{2}a##

##2b=a##

then,

##4=k(-2b)^2(-b)##

##4=-4kb^3##

##⇒ -1=kb^3##

Now since ##2b=a## then ##b=1, a=2 ⇒k=-1##.

Our equation becomes,

##f(x)=-1(x-2)^2(x-1)##

checking using,

##f(1.5)=-2(1.5-1)^2(1.5-2)=-0.125 <0## which is a contradiction as ##y## is positive between the roots ##x=1## and ##x=2##.

Therefore,

##a=1, b=2, k=-2##.

There may be a better approach.
Did you graph your answers to see which is right?

Hint: Double roots "touch" the x-axis, whereas single roots cross it.

Which is your double root?

-Dan
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: e_jane and chwala
topsquark said:
Did you graph your answers to see which is right?

Hint: Double roots "touch" the x-axis, whereas single roots cross it.

Which is your double root?

-Dan
I think i have shown that the second possibility does not apply thus we can only have the first possibility as the correct approach.
Kindly follow my working.
 
chwala said:
I think i have shown that the second possibility does not apply thus we can only have the first possibility as the correct approach.
Kindly follow my working.
You asked for a better method. What Dan's saying is that ##\dfrac{dy}{dx}(x=a) = 0##, so the double root at ##x = a## is a turning point. That gives you ##a = 1## directly.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala and topsquark
@chwala, your solution is much more long-winded than is necessary. One can see by inspection of the graph that a = 1 and b = 2. The equation is therefore ##y = k(x - 1)^2(x - 2)##.
Since the y-intercept is 4, k can be determined by solving the equation 4 = k(-1)(-2).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala, SammyS and topsquark
Mark44 said:
@chwala, your solution is much more long-winded than is necessary. One can see by inspection of the graph that a = 1 and b = 2. The equation is therefore ##y = k(x - 1)^2(x - 2)##.
Since the y-intercept is 4, k can be determined by solving the equation 4 = k(-1)(-2).
I do not think it was that straightforward. How to answer the question on script (by inspection )if it was an exam question? ...using complete square knowledge to justify ##a## as a turning point of graph I suppose.
Cheers man.
 
chwala said:
I do not think it was that straightforward. How to answer the question on script (by inspection )if it was an exam question?
It was straightforward to me. You were given the equation ##y = k(x - a)^2(x - b)## and shown that the graph has x-intercepts at x = 1 and x = 2. I'm assuming that these are the exact values, and I'm sure that was the intent of the writer of this problem.

The facts that 1) the graph had a parabolic shape that opened upward near x = 1 and 2) crossed the x-axis at x = 2, told me that the quadratic factor had to be ##(x - 1)^2## and that the linear factor had to be ##(x - 2)##. Being able to recognize the behavior of low-degree polynomials is a skill that is often taught as part of precalculus courses.
chwala said:
.using complete square knowledge to justify a as a turning point of graph I suppose.
Completing the square, if that's what you meant above, isn't helpful. The equation is already given as a product of factors.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SammyS, topsquark and PeroK

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K