Find y' at (0,1): Partial Derivative at (x,y)=(0,1)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the derivative y' at the point (0,1) for the equation x²y² + (y+1)e^(-x) = 2 + x, where y is defined as a differentiable function of x. Participants are exploring the application of implicit differentiation and the use of partial derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Some participants attempt to apply partial derivatives, while others suggest that implicit differentiation is the appropriate method. There is a discussion about the correctness of the original poster's calculations and the definitions used in the differentiation process.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the methods used, with some expressing uncertainty about their approaches. There is a recognition of the potential correctness of the answer despite concerns about the underlying work. Multiple interpretations of the differentiation process are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of specific points where terms simplify, and the importance of correctly identifying derivatives in the context of level curves is highlighted. Some participants note that the original poster's approach may lead to confusion if applied at different points.

beaf123
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x2y2 + (y+1)e-x=2 + x

Defines y as a differentiable function of x at point (x, y) = (0,1)

Find y′:

My attempt:

∂y/∂x =2xy3 + (-y-1)e-x=1

∂y/∂y = 3x2y2 - e-x=0

Plugging in for x and y ⇒

∂y/∂x = -3

∂y/∂x = -1

For some reason I think y′ is defined as
(∂y/∂x) /(∂y/∂y) = 3

At leas this give the right answer (from solutions), but I am uncertain so I hope someone can correct me where I am wrong.
 
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beaf123 said:
x2y2 + (y+1)e-x=2 + x

Defines y as a differentiable function of x at point (x, y) = (0,1)

Find y′:

My attempt:

∂y/∂x =2xy3 + (-y-1)e-x=1
No, not even close.
First, you shouldn't be using partial derivatives, as the problem statement says that y is a differentiable function of x.
Second, and more important, to find dy/dx, you need to use implicit differentiation.
beaf123 said:
∂y/∂y = 3x2y2 - e-x=0

Plugging in for x and y ⇒

∂y/∂x = -3

∂y/∂x = -1

For some reason I think y′ is defined as
(∂y/∂x) /(∂y/∂y) = 3

At leas this give the right answer (from solutions), but I am uncertain so I hope someone can correct me where I am wrong.
 
I looked up implicit differentiation in my book ( thanks for pointing me in the right direction), but it seems like that is what I have been doing even without knowing it. What I did was correct and the answer is correct.
 
beaf123 said:
I looked up implicit differentiation in my book ( thanks for pointing me in the right direction), but it seems like that is what I have been doing even without knowing it. What I did was correct and the answer is correct.
The answer might possibly be correct, but your work is not correct.

Starting with this equation:
##x^2y^2 + (y + 1)e^{-x} = 2 + x##
and differentiating implicitly with respect to x, we get
##2xy^2 + 2x^2y*y' - (y + 1)e^{-x} + y' e^{-x} = 1##
To continue, put all of the terms involving y' on one side, and all the others on the other side, and solve algebraically for y'.
 
The formula I found in the book says:

Slope of a level curve ( which is what I have since 2 is a constant)

F(x,y) = c ⇒ y′ = F`1 (x, y) / F`2 (x, y)
F`2 (x, y) ≠ 0

which is exactly what I did. Maybe you would get the same answer doing it your way, but what I did is correct as well.
 
beaf123 said:
The formula I found in the book says:

Slope of a level curve ( which is what I have since 2 is a constant)

F(x,y) = c ⇒ y′ = F`1 (x, y) / F`2 (x, y)
F`2 (x, y) ≠ 0

which is exactly what I did. Maybe you would get the same answer doing it your way, but what I did is correct as well.
Here's what you posted earlier:
beaf123 said:
x2y2 + (y+1)e-x=2 + x

Defines y as a differentiable function of x at point (x, y) = (0,1)
The function for your level curve would be F(x, y) = C, or x2y2 + (y+1)e-x - x =2
So the left side of the last equation if F(x, y), and C = 2
beaf123 said:
Find y′:

My attempt:

∂y/∂x =2xy3 + (-y-1)e-x=1
2xy3 can't be right.
Also, the above should be ∂F/∂x and below should be ∂F/∂y, since ∂y/∂y is 1.
beaf123 said:
∂y/∂y = 3x2y2 - e-x=0

I think you stumbled onto the correct answer by accident, which is not a good way to do things. You lucked out that the point in question is (0, 1), so lots of terms drop out.
 
You are right that it should be ∂F/∂x and below should be ∂F/∂y, since ∂y/∂y is 1 and also I wrote y3 instead of y2 which could be confusing. But as you said it doesent matter cus it drops out.
 
beaf123 said:
You are right that it should be ∂F/∂x and below should be ∂F/∂y, since ∂y/∂y is 1 and also I wrote y3 instead of y2 which could be confusing. But as you said it doesent matter cus it drops out.

I hope you realize that it matters a lot. You would really see the difference if you started at a different point, such as ##(x,y) = (1,y_1)##, where
y_1 = \frac{e^{-1}}{2} \left( -1 + \sqrt{12e^2 - 4e +1} \right).
Another point is that you might be marked wrong even if your answer is correct but your argument and formulas are incorrect.
 
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