Finding a set and an injection

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a set ##X## and an injective function from a group ##G## into the symmetric group ##Sym(X)##. Participants are exploring the requirements of the problem and the relationships between the elements of the group and the functions defined on them.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need for a set ##X## such that ##Sym(X)## is at least as large as ##G##. There is consideration of defining an injection based on the binary operation of the group. Some participants suggest letting ##X=G## and associating elements of ##G## with mappings in ##Sym(G)##.

Discussion Status

There is active exploration of the injective mapping and its properties. Some participants have provided hints and guidance on demonstrating that certain mappings are bijections, while others are questioning the validity of their reasoning and seeking clarification on definitions and implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the definitions of injective and surjective functions, as well as the implications of closure and well-defined operations within the context of group theory. There is an emphasis on ensuring that the mappings adhere to the properties of groups.

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Homework Statement


Let ##G## be a group. I need to find a set ##X## and an injective function from ##G## into ##Sym(X)##

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I am having difficulty with this problem, and I want to make sure I understand exactly what it is asking.
If I understand the question correctly, we have some group ##G##, and we want to find some set ##X## and create some mapping (specifically, an injection) which associates the elements in ##G## with the elements in ##Sym(X)##, so that we can clearly see that the elements of ##G##, along with its binary operator ##\star##, form functions?

Here are some ideas: I am pretty certain that I need to choose an ##X## such that ##Sym(X)## is at least as large as, if not greater than, ##G##. I know that the binary operator ##\star## is actually a function, so could I base my injection off of this? I have this suspicion that ##G=X## would work, but I can't quite figure it out.

EDIT: I also know that ##(Sym(X), \circ)## forms a group, so I am basically trying to find an injection between two different groups.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
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Bashyboy said:

Homework Statement


Let ##G## be a group. I need to find a set ##X## and an injective function from ##G## into ##Sym(X)##

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I am having difficulty with this problem, and I want to make sure I understand exactly what it is asking.
If I understand the question correctly, we have some group ##G##, and we want to find some set ##X## and create some mapping (specifically, an injection) which associates the elements in ##G## with the elements in ##Sym(X)##, so that we can clearly see that the elements of ##G##, along with its binary operator ##\star##, form functions?

Here are some ideas: I am pretty certain that I need to choose an ##X## such that ##Sym(X)## is at least as large as, if not greater than, ##G##. I know that the binary operator ##\star## is actually a function, so could I base my injection off of this? I have this suspicion that ##G=X## would work, but I can't quite figure it out.

EDIT: I also know that ##(Sym(X), \circ)## forms a group, so I am basically trying to find an injection between two different groups.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Yes, take G=X. Associate an element of the group g with the mapping g:X->X defined by g(x)=gx. Is that an element of Sym(G)?
 
Wait. From which set does ##g## come from? Are you saying that it is in ##G##, or in ##Sym(G)##?
 
Bashyboy said:
Wait. From which set does ##g## come from? Are you saying that it is in ##G##, or in ##Sym(G)##?

g is in G.
 
Okay. So, let me reiterate things, to see if I understand fully. We want to find a set ##X## and ##\pi## such that ##\pi : G \mapsto Sym(X)## is an injective map. We let ##X=G##, and so ##Sym(G)## consists of all the bijective functions acting over the elements of ##G##; that is, ##Sym(G) = \{\theta_1 , \theta_2, \theta_3,... \}##, where ##\theta_1 : G \mapsto G##, ##\theta_2 : G \mapsto G##, etc.

Let ##g \in G## be arbitrary. I need to find an element in ##Sym(G)## to which ##\pi## can map it. If ##g \in G##, then there exists a mapping ##\theta \in Sym(G)## such that

##\theta : g \mapsto a## or ##\theta(g) = a##, where ##a \in G## is unique, because ##\theta## is a bijection. So,

##\pi : g \mapsto \theta (g)##

##\pi : g \mapsto a##.

So, ##\pi## will actually map ##g## to a unique element in ##G##.

This is where I am not certain of what I can conclude. In fact, I am not certain if any of what I said is valid. Could you pick apart my work?
 
Bashyboy said:
Okay. So, let me reiterate things, to see if I understand fully. We want to find a set ##X## and ##\pi## such that ##\pi : G \mapsto Sym(X)## is an injective map. We let ##X=G##, and so ##Sym(G)## consists of all the bijective functions acting over the elements of ##G##; that is, ##Sym(G) = \{\theta_1 , \theta_2, \theta_3,... \}##, where ##\theta_1 : G \mapsto G##, ##\theta_2 : G \mapsto G##, etc.

Let ##g \in G## be arbitrary. I need to find an element in ##Sym(G)## to which ##\pi## can map it. If ##g \in G##, then there exists a mapping ##\theta \in Sym(G)## such that

##\theta : g \mapsto a## or ##\theta(g) = a##, where ##a \in G## is unique, because ##\theta## is a bijection. So,

##\pi : g \mapsto \theta (g)##

##\pi : g \mapsto a##.

So, ##\pi## will actually map ##g## to a unique element in ##G##.

This is where I am not certain of what I can conclude. In fact, I am not certain if any of what I said is valid. Could you pick apart my work?

You are thinking of it way too abstractly. My hint is to point out that for any g in G the map f from G->G defined by f(x)=gx is a bijection. Prove that first. Then think about the overall problem.
 
Last edited:
Are you saying that I need to demonstrate that ##f(x) = g \star x## is a bijection, where ##x \in G##, I presume? So, the function/map ##f## is defined in terms of the operator ##\star##? Well, the binary operator ##\star## is well-defined, so it maps uniquely; and because ##\star## has closure, the binary operator, and therefore the function ##f##, will map every element ##G## to some element in ##G##.
 
Bashyboy said:
Are you saying that I need to demonstrate that ##f(x) = g \star x## is a bijection, where ##x \in G##, I presume? So, the function/map ##f## is defined in terms of the operator ##\star##? Well, the binary operator ##\star## is well-defined, so it maps uniquely; and because ##\star## has closure, the binary operator, and therefore the function ##f##, will map every element ##G## to some element in ##G##.

You also have to show it's one-to-one and onto to show it's a bijection.
 
Don't closure and being well-defined demonstrate that it's one-to-one and onto? Closure means that every element in G gets mapped to G, so f maps the elements of G onto G; and well-defined means that it takes ##g \star x## to a unique element in G.
 
  • #10
Bashyboy said:
Don't closure and being well-defined demonstrate that it's one-to-one and onto? Closure means that every element in G gets mapped to G, so f maps the elements of G onto G; and well-defined means that it takes ##g \star x## to a unique element in G.

That just tells you f is a function. How is that supposed to imply that it's one to one or onto? Say how those are defined and spell it out in detail. You need to use that G is a group, not just that * is a binary operator. Saying f maps G TO G is not the same thing as saying f maps G ONTO G. What's the difference?
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Oh, okay. Let ##g \in G## be some arbitrary element. The function we have defined is ##f(x) = g \star x##, which maps elements from ##G## to the same set.

If the function is injective, then ##f(x) = f(y) \implies x = y ~\forall x,y \in G##. Let ##x,y \in G## be arbitrary; and let us suppose that ##f(x) = f(y)##, and see whether this leads to ##x=y##.

##f(x) = f(y) \iff g \star x = g \star y##. Using the cancellation law, we get ##x = y##. Therefore, it is injective.

If the function is surjective, then ##f## should take every element ##b \in G## in the range and associate it with some element in the domain. Let ##b \in G## be some arbitrary element.

##b = f(x) \implies b = g \star x##. Because ##g \in G##, then ##g^{-1} \in G##. Multiplying both sides by this, we get

##g^{-1} \star b = x##. By closure of ##\star## over ##G##, ##g^{-1} \star b## is some element in ##G##, which is the domain of ##f##; because ##x## is equal to this element, we have found that there does in fact exist an ##x## in the domain which is associated with ##b## in the range.

How does this appear?
 
  • #12
Bashyboy said:
Oh, okay. Let ##g \in G## be some arbitrary element. The function we have defined is ##f(x) = g \star x##, which maps elements from ##G## to the same set.

If the function is injective, then ##f(x) = f(y) \implies x = y ~\forall x,y \in G##. Let ##x,y \in G## be arbitrary; and let us suppose that ##f(x) = f(y)##, and see whether this leads to ##x=y##.

##f(x) = f(y) \iff g \star x = g \star y##. Using the cancellation law, we get ##x = y##. Therefore, it is injective.

If the function is surjective, then ##f## should take every element ##b \in G## in the range and associate it with some element in the domain. Let ##b \in G## be some arbitrary element.

##b = f(x) \implies b = g \star x##. Because ##g \in G##, then ##g^{-1} \in G##. Multiplying both sides by this, we get

##g^{-1} \star b = x##. By closure of ##\star## over ##G##, ##g^{-1} \star b## is some element in ##G##, which is the domain of ##f##; because ##x## is equal to this element, we have found that there does in fact exist an ##x## in the domain which is associated with ##b## in the range.

How does this appear?

Much better. Now you have a correspondence between every element g of G and a bijection of G->G. That's an element of Sym(G), yes? Now you just want to prove that correspondence is an injection.
 
  • #13
So, I need to prove that ##\pi : g \mapsto f(x)## is an injection; that is, ##\pi (g) = f(x)##?

Let ##a,b \in G## be arbitrary. Let us suppose that ##\pi(a) = \pi(b)##.

##\pi(a) = \pi(b) \iff##

## a \star x = b \star x## Using the cancellation law,

##a = b##.

Is this right?

Would it be less ambiguous if we wrote ##f(x)## as ##f_g(x)##?
 
  • #14
Bashyboy said:
So, I need to prove that ##\pi : g \mapsto f(x)## is an injection; that is, ##\pi (g) = f(x)##?

Let ##a,b \in G## be arbitrary. Let us suppose that ##\pi(a) = \pi(b)##.

##\pi(a) = \pi(b) \iff##

## a \star x = b \star x## Using the cancellation law,

##a = b##.

Is this right?

Would it be less ambiguous if we wrote ##f(x)## as ##f_g(x)##?

The idea is right. The notation is pretty messy. Sure, make it ##f_g(x)=g \star x##. So ##\pi(g)=f_g##.
 

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