Finding an operation that makes a group

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an operation on the interval (0,1) that allows it to be structured as a group, specifically with the inverse of an element x defined as 1-x. Participants explore various approaches and mathematical concepts related to group theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks an operation on (0,1) that forms a group with the inverse defined as 1-x.
  • Another participant suggests finding a way to relate (0,1) to the real numbers R to define the operation.
  • A participant raises the question of what the identity element of the group will be.
  • A later reply discusses a method involving the function \(\frac{1}{2}tanh(u) + \frac{1}{2}\) and its implications for constructing a group operation.
  • Another participant comments that the construction of an isomorphism was done before understanding the group structure, implying a need for clarity on the method's validity.
  • A participant expresses appreciation for the book being discussed and encourages perseverance in learning.
  • One participant notes that while the book has not yet covered group isomorphisms, they found external resources that clarified their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple viewpoints and approaches regarding the operation and the group structure. There is no consensus on the method's validity or the identity element, and participants express varying levels of understanding and confidence in their ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical functions and concepts without fully resolving the underlying assumptions or the implications of their proposed methods. The discussion remains exploratory and does not settle on a definitive operation or group structure.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of abstract algebra, particularly those interested in group theory and its applications to real numbers and intervals.

learningphysics
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Hi. I'm working through the book "Elements of Abstract Algebra" by Allan Clark. This question has stumped me... find an operation on (0,1) (set of reals x such that 0<x<1 ) that makes (0,1) a group and makes the inverse of x, 1-x.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.
 
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Do you know of an operation on R that makes it into a group with -x the inverse of x? Think of a way to make (0,1) correspond to R such that you can define your operation on (0,1) in terms of the very familiar operation on R.
 
Another thing you might want to think about is what the identity of the group will be.
 
Thanks AKG and Nate. I believe I've found the answer but I'm not sure why the method I used "works"...

I looked for a way to make (0,1) correspond to R as AKG said. I used the function: [tex]\frac{1}{2}tanh(u) + \frac{1}{2}[/tex]

From here I decided to multiply out [tex]\frac{1}{2}tanh(u + v) + \frac{1}{2}[/tex]

Then after setting [tex]x = \frac{1}{2}tanh(u) + \frac{1}{2}[/tex] and [tex]y = \frac{1}{2}tanh(v) + \frac{1}{2}[/tex], I rewrote the above as:

[tex]\frac{xy}{1+2xy-x-y}[/tex] which is the product.

(I got this idea because the previous problem had the function [tex]\frac{x+y}{1+xy}[/tex] which you can get from substiting [tex]x=tanh(u)[/tex] and [tex]y=tanh(v)[/tex] into [tex]tanh(x+y)[/tex] but I really don't understand why it works)

Why did this method work? Thanks again for all your help.
 
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Why did this method work? Thanks again for all your help.
Because the target of a group isomorphism is a group. You just constructed the isomorphism before you figured out what the group was.
 
that is a wonderful book. hang in there and you will learn a lot.
 
Thanks Hurkyl and mathwonk. The book hasn't covered group isomorphisms yet, but I looked it up and everything makes perfect sense.
 

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