Finding an unknown force at an unknown angle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving the calculation of an unknown force and its angle based on given components acting along two struts. Participants explore the relationships between the force, its components, and the angles involved, while attempting to resolve discrepancies in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the force acting along strut AB is 600 lb and along strut BC is 500 lb, leading to equations involving the unknown force F and angle θ.
  • Another participant suggests using the trigonometric identity for cos(x-y) to simplify the expression for Fcos(75° - θ).
  • Concerns are raised about the calculated values of F and θ, with one participant noting that their calculations yield F = 870 lb and θ ≈ 34°, which contradicts the original problem statement.
  • Disagreement arises regarding the validity of the answers provided by the homework platform, with some participants asserting that the answers do not satisfy the equations derived from the problem.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their initial equations and calculations, with one suggesting to start over with simpler equations to find different values for θ and F.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the correctness of the values for F and θ, with some asserting that the answers are set in stone while others question their validity based on the problem's requirements. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the initial equations and assumptions made by participants, as well as discrepancies in the calculated values that do not align with the problem statement.

Xovvo
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Homework Statement



So we have a force of unknown magnitude acting on these struts at an angle θ measured from strut AB.
The component of the force acting along AB is 600lb, and the magnitude of the force acting along BC is 500lb.
If Φ = 60°, what is the magnitude of F and the angle θ?

Hibbler.ch2.p13.jpg


Homework Equations



Fcos(θ) = 600lb

The Attempt at a Solution



Ok. So, it'll probably help if I knew the third angle of the triangle formed.
180° = ɣ + (60° + 45°)
180° - 105° = ɣ
75° = ɣ

Great. So, I know that Fcos(θ) = 600lb, and Fcos(75° - θ) = 500lb
hm. Fcos(θ)/600 = 1 = Fcos(75 - θ)/500
500Fcos(θ) = 600Fcos(75° - θ)
5Fcos(θ) = 6Fcos(75° - θ)
5cos(θ) = 6cos(75° - θ)
0 = 5cos(θ) - 6cos(75° - θ)

Originally I tried finding where z = 5cos(θ) - 6cos(75° - θ) intersected with z = θ + η where η = 75° + θ, but I couldn't get Wolfram Alpha to understand what I was talking about. Here, I see I should have just left η as
75° - θ, but even still, I have to *ask* Wolfram Alpha what θ works for 0 = 5cos(θ) - 6cos(75° - θ) when
0<=θ<=75° (it gives me an angle of ~30.7°).

Worse, since I couldn't figure it out, I figures if I gave in on the magnitude of F, I could still find the angle. Mastering Engineering told me F = 870lb. So, if Fcos(θ) = 600, θ=arccos(600/F) and arccos(600/870) ≈ 46.4°.
Which was wrong. The θ it wanted was ~34°

Which means everything I did was wrong.
So what triangle magic do I do to get from the initial problem, to the final F=870 θ=34°, without doing something so complicated I need Wolfram Alpha to crunch it out?
 
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A hint: cos(x-y) = cos(x)cos(y) + sin(x)sin(y). Apply that to cos(75° - θ).
 
Xovvo said:
Great. So, I know that Fcos(θ) = 600lb, and Fcos(75° - θ) = 500lb
Good. I suggest using a trig identity to simplify the expression Fcos(75° - θ).
 
While that does get everything in simpler terms of θ, that doesn't address that 870cos(34) = 721.3 and not 600.
My error is a lot farther up.
 
Xovvo said:
While that does get everything in simpler terms of θ, that doesn't address that 870cos(34) = 721.3 and not 600.
My error is a lot farther up.
Start over with the two simpler equations. You'll get a different value for θ and F.
 
what do you mean by that? Because F=870 and θ≈34° are set in stone Those are the answers for this problem.
 
Xovvo said:
what do you mean by that? Because F=870 and θ≈34° are set in stone
And yet you know that:
Xovvo said:
870cos(34) = 721.3 and not 600.

Xovvo said:
Those are the answers for this problem.
Says who?

Why not just solve it using that trig substitution. You'll solve it easily without needing Wolfram.
 
Doc Al said:
Says who?
Says The homework. Because I've already gotten this question wrong, and the answers were displayed. I'm asking about this question here so I know what to do when this sort of problem comes up again.
 
Xovvo said:
Says The homework. Because I've already gotten this question wrong, and the answers were displayed.
Do you not agree that the given answers do not work? That they contradict the problem statement?

Xovvo said:
I'm asking about this question here so I know what to do when this sort of problem comes up again.
I would solve it in the manner described above, so you can get a straightforward answer.
 
  • #10
The given answers don't work for Fcos(θ)=600, no. But that could mean either Mastering Engineering flubbed or, more likely, I flubbed the starting equations.
 

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