Finding area (application of definite integral)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of definite integrals to calculate the area of a block of land defined by two curves and two fences. Participants explore the mathematical approach to solving the problem, including the setup of integrals and the conditions under which the curves intersect.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a problem involving the area bounded by the curves N=0.5E and N=0.25E^2-E+30, asking for assistance in calculating the area.
  • Another participant explains the concept of the area under a curve as represented by a definite integral, suggesting that the problem is an application of integral theory.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of understanding the underlying theory before attempting to solve problems, arguing that solving exercises without theoretical knowledge is impractical.
  • A participant proposes a specific integral setup to calculate the area, questioning if their approach is correct.
  • Another participant calculates the area based on the assumption that the curves do not intersect and provides a detailed derivation of the area formula.
  • There is a related question about finding the area between the curves y=sin(x) and y=cos(x) over a specified interval, with participants discussing the need to identify intersections and the order of functions in the integrals.
  • One participant outlines the steps to find the intersection points of the sine and cosine functions and determines the areas under each curve over the specified intervals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of theoretical understanding before solving problems. While some agree on the importance of foundational knowledge, others focus on the practical aspects of solving the specific problem presented. The discussion regarding the area between the sine and cosine functions also reveals varying approaches to determining intersections and the order of functions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the problem lacks specific details about the placement of the fences, which affects the area calculation. Additionally, there are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the curves and their intersections.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying calculus, particularly those interested in applications of definite integrals and area calculations involving curves.

Noah1
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Hi, I am stuck on this question and was wondering if anyone could help me. The topic is integral equations.

A block of land is bounded by two fences running North-South 5 km apart a fence line which is approximated by the function N=0.5E and a road which is approximated by the curve N=0.25E^2-E+30. N and E are measured in kilometres. Calculate the area of this block of land.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Re: Stuck on these questions

Do you know that the area under the graph of $f(x)$ between $x_1$ and $x_2$ is $\displaystyle\int_{x_1}^{x_2}f(t)\,dt$?
 
Re: Stuck on these questions

Evgeny.Makarov said:
Do you know that the area under the graph of $f(x)$ between $x_1$ and $x_2$ is $\displaystyle\int_{x_1}^{x_2}f(t)\,dt$?

no what is that
 
Re: Stuck on these questions

I guess this can serve as the definition of the (net) area under the curve. See, for example, here and here or search for "area under the curve".

In general, it's a very bad idea to attempt solving exercises without learning the relevant theory. Doing so is simply impossible. I believe this problem is given to you as an application of some lesson about integrals, and it would be absurd to ignore the lesson and go straight for problems.
 
Re: Stuck on these questions

Evgeny.Makarov said:
I guess this can serve as the definition of the (net) area under the curve. See, for example, here and here or search for "area under the curve".

In general, it's a very bad idea to attempt solving exercises without learning the relevant theory. Doing so is simply impossible. I believe this problem is given to you as an application of some lesson about integrals, and it would be absurd to ignore the lesson and go straight for problems.

I have tried to solve it that way do I inset both of the equations like this ∫_0^5▒〖0.25E^2-E-0.5E+30〗 dE
 
Re: Stuck on these questions

Noah said:
I have tried to solve it that way do I inset both of the equations like this ∫_0^5▒〖0.25E^2-E-0.5E+30〗 dE

is the answer 141.67?
 
We are given a road which follows:

$$R=\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30$$

and a fence which follows:

$$F=\frac{1}{2}E$$

I would first see if the road and the fence intersect anwhere:

$$\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30=\frac{1}{2}E$$

$$E^2-4E+120=2E$$

$$E^2-6E+120=0$$

We see the discriminant is negative, thus the two functions do not intersect, and we see that:

$$R(0)>F(0)$$

And so we may conclude that for all $E$, we must have:

$$R>F$$

Now, we aren't told where the two other fences (the two running north/south) lie (only that they are 5 km apart), so I would put them at:

$$E_1=a$$

$$E_2=a+5$$

And so the area $A$ (in $\text{km}^2$) bounded by the road and 3 fences is given by:

$$A=\int_{E_1}^{E_2} R-F\,dE=\int_{a}^{a+5} \left(\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30\right)-\left(\frac{1}{2}E\right)\,dE=\frac{1}{4}\int_{a}^{a+5} E^2-6E+120\,dE$$

Apply the FTOC:

$$A=\frac{1}{4}\left[\frac{1}{3}E^3-3E^2+120E\right]_{a}^{a+5}=\frac{1}{12}\left(\left((a+5)^3-9(a+5)^2+360(a+5)\right)-\left(a^3-9a^2+360a\right)\right)=\frac{5}{12}\left(3a^2-3a+340\right)$$

Now, if we assume that $a=0$, then we would have:

$$A=\frac{425}{3}=141.\overline{6}$$
 
MarkFL said:
We are given a road which follows:

$$R=\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30$$

and a fence which follows:

$$F=\frac{1}{2}E$$

I would first see if the road and the fence intersect anwhere:

$$\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30=\frac{1}{2}E$$

$$E^2-4E+120=2E$$

$$E^2-6E+120=0$$

We see the discriminant is zero, thus the two functions do not intersect, and we see that:

$$R(0)>F(0)$$

And so we may conclude that for all $E$, we must have:

$$R>F$$

Now, we aren't told where the two other fences (the two running north/south) lie (only that they are 5 km apart), so I would put them at:

$$E_1=a$$

$$E_2=a+5$$

And so the area $A$ (in $\text{km}^2$) bounded by the road and 3 fences is given by:

$$A=\int_{E_1}^{E_2} R-F\,dE=\int_{a}^{a+5} \left(\frac{1}{4}E^2-E+30\right)-\left(\frac{1}{2}E\right)\,dE=\frac{1}{4}\int_{a}^{a+5} E^2-6E+120\,dE$$

Apply the FTOC:

$$A=\frac{1}{4}\left[\frac{1}{3}E^3-3E^2+120E\right]_{a}^{a+5}=\frac{1}{12}\left(\left((a+5)^3-9(a+5)^2+360(a+5)\right)-\left(a^3-9a^2+360a\right)\right)=\frac{5}{12}\left(3a^2-3a+340\right)$$

Now, if we assume that $a=0$, then we would have:

$$A=\frac{425}{3}=141.\overline{6}$$

Thanks for that is this question the same principal?
Find the Physical area between that curves y=sin(x) and y=cos(x) from x=pi/2 to x=3pi/2
 
Noah said:
Thanks for that is this question the same principal?
Find the Physical area between that curves y=sin(x) and y=cos(x) from x=pi/2 to x=3pi/2

Yes, you will need to determine any intersections of the two functions on the given interval, and then determine which function is on top in each sub-interval, and within each sub-interval make your integrand the top function minus the bottom function.

I would begin by plotting both functions on the given interval to see the area in question and to help with determining the formula for the area. :D
 
  • #10
To find the intersection(s) in the given interval, we may write:

$$\sin(x)=\cos(x)$$

Now, observing that $$\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)=\cos\left(\frac{3\pi}{2}\right)=0$$ and:

$$\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)\ne\sin\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)$$

$$\cos\left(\frac{3\pi}{2}\right)\ne\sin\left(\frac{3\pi}{2}\right)$$

We may then divide though by $\cos(x)$ without losing any solutions on the given interval to get:

$$\tan(x)=1$$

And, given the periodicity of the tangent function and the quadrant I solution of $$x=\frac{\pi}{4}$$, we may give the general solution as:

$$x=\frac{\pi}{4}+k\pi=\frac{\pi}{4}(4k+1)$$ where $k\in\mathbb{Z}$

Now, along with the given interval and what we found at the endpoints, we may write:

$$\frac{\pi}{2}<\frac{\pi}{4}(4k+1)<\frac{3\pi}{2}$$

$$2<4k+1<6$$

$$1<4k<5$$

$$\frac{1}{4}<k<\frac{5}{4}$$

Hence (given that $k$ is an integer):

$k=1$

And so the intersection of the two functions occurs for:

$$x=\frac{\pi}{4}(4(1)+1)=\frac{5\pi}{4}$$

Now, observing that:

$$\sin\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)>\cos\left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)$$

$$\sin\left(\frac{3\pi}{2}\right)<\cos\left(\frac{3\pi}{2}\right)$$

We may conclude:

$$\sin(x)>\cos(x)$$ on $$\left[\frac{\pi}{2},\frac{5\pi}{4}\right)$$

$$\cos(x)>\sin(x)$$ on $$\left(\frac{5\pi}{4},\frac{3\pi}{2}\right]$$

And so the area $A$ in question will be given by:

$$A=\int_{\frac{\pi}{2}}^{\frac{5\pi}{4}} \sin(x)-\cos(x)\,dx+\int_{\frac{5\pi}{4}}^{\frac{3\pi}{2}} \cos(x)-\sin(x)\,dx=(1+\sqrt{2})+(\sqrt{2}-1)=2\sqrt{2}$$
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
8K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K