Finding Distance w/o Velocity or Max Height

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of determining the horizontal distance an object will land from the origin, given only the angle of projection and the total time of flight, without knowledge of the initial velocity or maximum height. Participants explore various approaches to solve this problem, focusing on the independence of horizontal and vertical motion and the application of kinematic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the feasibility of finding the distance without knowing the initial velocity or maximum height, expressing doubt about the possibility of solving the problem.
  • Another participant suggests that the time in the air can be used to determine the vertical component of the velocity, indicating that the horizontal and vertical motions are independent.
  • A different participant proposes dividing the total time by two to find the time to the peak height, using kinematic equations to relate vertical acceleration, final velocity, and time.
  • One participant attempts to illustrate the calculations using a specific angle and time, but arrives at a contradiction regarding the horizontal component of velocity.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of determining the initial vertical velocity and provides a formula involving gravitational acceleration and time.
  • A participant clarifies their focus on finding the horizontal distance and attempts to apply the horizontal motion equations, questioning the correctness of their approach.
  • Responses indicate that while the approach is correct, it is deemed ineffective without knowing the initial velocity.
  • One participant suggests that the use of SUVAT equations could yield answers quickly, implying frustration with the previous methods discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of solving the problem without knowing the initial velocity. While some propose methods to derive the velocity from the given parameters, others highlight the limitations of these approaches, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various assumptions regarding the independence of motion and the applicability of kinematic equations. There is a lack of consensus on the effectiveness of the proposed methods, and some calculations lead to contradictions.

Googl
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Hi all,

I have a question, where I am given just the angle at which the object is fired at to the horizontal and the amount of time the object stays in the air. How can I possibly find the distance at which the object will land from the origin if I don't have the velocity at which the object was fired? Or the highest point at which it will reach.

That is just impossible. Am I wrong?

Thanks.
 
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Ignoring air resistance, the horizontal and vertical motion of the object are indepedent.

You know the time in the air, so you can find the vertical component of the velocity.

You also know the vertical component of the velocity is [itex]V\sin\theta[/itex] and the horizontal component is [itex]V\cos\theta[/itex]. You know [itex]\theta[/itex] so you can find [itex]V[/itex].
 
Divide the time by 2 to give you the time half way - the time to the peak.

You know acceleration = g, time = ttotal/2, and if you take the first part of the journey you know the final speed is zero (peak of journey, vertical velocity is zero).

So for the first part you've got vertical acceleration (g), final velocity (0) and time (ttotal/2).

From that you can plug those numbers into the equations of motion and get the maximum height reached and the initial velocity.
 
AlephZero said:
Ignoring air resistance, the horizontal and vertical motion of the object are indepedent.

You know the time in the air, so you can find the vertical component of the velocity.

You also know the vertical component of the velocity is [itex]V\sin\theta[/itex] and the horizontal component is [itex]V\cos\theta[/itex]. You know [itex]\theta[/itex] so you can find [itex]V[/itex].

Let's say angle is 50 degrees and time 20s

So you're saying;

[itex]V\cos\theta[/itex] = [itex]u\cos50[/itex] + axt
Horizontal acceleration is 0 (x-axis)
[itex]V\cos\theta[/itex] = 0 + 0x20s
[itex]V\cos\theta[/itex] = 0
V = cos50/0
V = 0
 
No, do what I said.

The initial vertical velocity = [itex]V \sin \theta[/itex]

The vertical acceleration = [itex]-g[/itex]
Vertical displacement = [itex]y = (V\sin\theta) t - g t^2 / 2[/itex]

When [itex]y = 0[/itex]

[itex]t = 0[/itex] or [itex]t = 2V\sin\theta /g[/itex]

[itex]V = gt / 2 \sin\theta[/itex]
 
Sorry, I am trying to find how far the object lands (that is in the x-axis).

Angle = 20 degress.
Time = 10s

The initial horizontal velocity = V cos20

The horizontal acceleration = 0
Horizontal displacement = y = V cos20 x 10 - 0 x 10^2 / 2

Is that right?
 
Googl said:
Is that right?
Yes it is right, but it is useless if you don't know V. Do what AlephZero said to figure out what V is.
 
Either I'm missing something here or you could plug the three values I pointed out into the SUVAT equations and had the answers out in seconds.

Given the trouble being had with AlephZeros method I'd at least have thought you'd give it a go.
 

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