Finding the radius of curvature of trajectory

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the radius of curvature of a trajectory defined by the polar coordinates \( r(t) = pe^{kt} \) and \( \theta(t) = kt \). The key equations used include \( R = \frac{(\dot{x}^2 + \dot{y}^2)^{3/2}}{(\dot{x}\ddot{y} - \ddot{x}\dot{y})} \) and \( R = \frac{(1 - y'^2)^{3/2}}{y''} \). Participants explore the relationship between tangential and centripetal components of acceleration, emphasizing the importance of correctly identifying the components of velocity and acceleration in polar coordinates. The final approach suggests using Cartesian coordinates to verify the results for the radius of curvature.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of polar coordinates and their derivatives
  • Familiarity with the concepts of tangential and centripetal acceleration
  • Knowledge of the equations of motion in physics
  • Ability to manipulate and transform equations involving derivatives
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  • Study the derivation of the radius of curvature in polar coordinates
  • Learn how to convert polar coordinates to Cartesian coordinates for analysis
  • Explore the relationship between acceleration components and trajectory curvature
  • Practice solving similar problems involving polar trajectories and curvature
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Students studying physics, particularly those focusing on mechanics and motion, as well as educators looking for examples of applying calculus to physical problems involving trajectories.

doktorwho
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Homework Statement


The functions are given:
##r(t)=pe^{kt}##
##\theta (t)=kt##
##v(r)=\sqrt2kr##
##a(t)=2k^2r##
Find the radius of the curvature of the trajectory in the function of ##r##

Homework Equations


$$R=\frac{(\dot x^2 + \dot y^2)^{3/2}}{(\dot x\ddot y - \ddot x\dot y)}$$
There is also a second equation:
$$R=\frac{(1- y'^2)^{3/2}}{y''}$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried using the first one to get the dependence of ##t## and then transforming to the dependence of ##r## but i get stuck. Here:
##R=\frac{(\dot x^2 + \dot y^2)^{3/2}}{(\dot x\ddot y - \ddot x\dot y)}##
I did not know what exactly are ##x, y## in my problem statement so i supposed that they are the radial and angle component of the velocity vector.
##v(t)=pke^{kt}\vec e_r + pke^{kt}\vec e_{\theta}##
So the ##(\dot x^2 + \dot y^2)^{3/2}=(2p^2k^2e^{2kt})^{3/2}##
##=\sqrt2pke^{kt}##
I have continued like this and used the acceleration in the polar coordinates for the below part but fail to get anything. Is my thinking from the start wrong? Could i have used an easier way? Perhaps finding the dependence on ##r## immediately from the result insted of first from ##t##?
 
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If you calculated the acceleration, would you be able to resolve the acceleration into tangential and centripetal components?
 
Chestermiller said:
If you calculated the acceleration, would you be able to resolve the acceleration into tangential and centripetal components?
##a=(\ddot r-\dot \theta^2)\vec e_r +(r\ddot \theta +2\dot r\dot \theta)\vec e_\theta##
From here my centripetal component is the radial one here, right? and the tangential is the angle one? Or is there another formula that connects the two?
 
doktorwho said:
##a=(\ddot r-\dot \theta^2)\vec e_r +(r\ddot \theta +2\dot r\dot \theta)\vec e_\theta##
From here my centripetal component is the radial one here, right? and the tangential is the angle one? Or is there another formula that connects the two?
No. The tangential component of acceleration is what you get if you dot the acceleration vector with a unit vector in the direction of the velocity vector. If this component is subtracted from the acceleration vector, what remains is the centripetal acceleration.
 
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Chestermiller said:
No. The tangential component of acceleration is what you get if you dot the acceleration vector with a unit vector in the direction of the velocity vector. If this component is subtracted from the acceleration vector, what remains is the centripetal acceleration.
So
##a_t=(a_rv_r+a_\theta v_\theta)##
And
##a_c=\sqrt{a^2-a^2_t}##
Where ##a=\sqrt{a^2_r+a^2_\theta}##?
How does this relate to the problem? Is my work on the above of the fraction part correct?
 
doktorwho said:
So
##a_t=(a_rv_r+a_\theta v_\theta)##
And
##a_c=\sqrt{a^2-a^2_t}##
Where ##a=\sqrt{a^_r+a^2_θ }##?
How does this relate to the problem? Is my work on the above of the fraction part correct?
No. The unit vector tangent to the trajectory is given by $$\vec{i}_t=\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$The tangential component of the acceleration is given by:
$$\vec{a}_t=(\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{i}_t)\vec{i}_t=\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$
The component of the acceleration normal to the trajectory is given by:$$\vec{a}_n=\vec{a}-\vec{a}_t=\vec{a}-\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$The square of the normal component of acceleration is given by:
$$|\vec{a}_n|^2=\vec{a}\centerdot {\vec{a}}-\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)^2$$
This is related to the radius of curvature R of the trajectory by $$\frac{v^2}{R}=|\vec{a}_n|$$
Try this approach with Cartesian coordinates to verify that it gives the correct result for the radius of curvature.
 
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Chestermiller said:
No. The unit vector tangent to the trajectory is given by $$\vec{i}_t=\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$The tangential component of the acceleration is given by:
$$\vec{a}_t=(\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{i}_t)\vec{i}_t=\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$
The component of the acceleration normal to the trajectory is given by:$$\vec{a}_n=\vec{a}-\vec{a}_t=\vec{a}-\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)\frac{\vec{v}}{|v|}$$The square of the normal component of acceleration is given by:
$$|\vec{a}_n|^2=\vec{a}\centerdot {\vec{a}}-\left(\frac{\vec{a}\centerdot \vec{v}}{|v|}\right)^2$$
This is related to the radius of curvature R of the trajectory by $$\frac{v^2}{R}=|\vec{a}_n|$$
Try this approach with Cartesian coordinates to verify that it gives the correct result for the radius of curvature.
Before i go on to calculate the tangential acceleration let's get something straight
##a_t=\frac{(a_rv_r+a_\theta v_theta)}{\sqrt{v^r_r+v^2_\theta}}## this is the fomula for the tangetial acceleration right?
 
doktorwho said:
Before i go on to calculate the tangential acceleration let's get something straight
##a_t=\frac{(a_rv_r+a_\theta v_theta)}{\sqrt{v^r_r+v^2_\theta}}## this is the fomula for the tangetial acceleration right?
Yes.
 
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