Finding the units (number theory)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the ring of polynomials with real coefficients, specifically focusing on identifying the units within this ring. The original poster attempts to prove that only constant terms can be units, provided the constant term is non-zero, while others question the validity of this claim by exploring the degrees of polynomials and their products.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the definition of units in the context of polynomial rings and examine the implications of polynomial degrees on the existence of units. Questions arise regarding the coefficients of the highest degree terms in products of polynomials and whether non-constant polynomials can yield a product of 1.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants suggest that the degrees of the polynomials involved may prevent them from being units, while others propose that real coefficients could allow for specific cases where the product equals 1. There is no explicit consensus yet on the nature of units in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the definitions and properties of polynomial rings, particularly focusing on the implications of having real coefficients and the degrees of polynomials. The discussion is constrained by the need to adhere to the definitions of polynomial equality and the characteristics of units within the ring.

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Homework Statement



Prove that the ring R of polynomials with real coefficients (i.e. f(x) = a0 + a1x + ... + anxn, ai real, are elements of R) has only the constant term a0 as the group of units, providing the constant term isn't zero.

Homework Equations



u is a unit if there exists a v such that uv=1

The Attempt at a Solution



Clearly all the constant terms are units of the ring as we are dealing with the real numbers.

Claim: There are more than just these, and that a polynomial f(x) = a0 + a1x + ... + anxn is invertible.

=> there must exist a g(x) = b0 + b1x + ... + bnxn

such that f(x).g(x) = 1

f(x).g(x) = b0(a0 + a1x + ...) + b1x(a0 + a1x + ...) + b2x2(a0 + a1x + ...) + ... = 1

Not too sure where to go from here.. Sorry if my notation is a little off but hopefully you can understand

Thanks
 
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R[x] is the ring of polynomials over a field: R. In this case, what is the degree of the product of two polynomials? What must be the degree of a unit?
 
If f(x) and g(x) aren't constants, then each one has a highest degree term with a coefficient that's nonzero, right? What's the coefficient of the highest degree term of f(x)*g(x)?
 
JSuarez said:
R[x] is the ring of polynomials over a field: R. In this case, what is the degree of the product of two polynomials? What must be the degree of a unit?

If f has degree n and g has degree m then the degree of the product is n+m which must be greater than or equal to 2, but the the degree of 1 is 0.

Surely some polynomial can equal 1 though can't it?

Dick said:
If f(x) and g(x) aren't constants, then each one has a highest degree term with a coefficient that's nonzero, right? What's the coefficient of the highest degree term of f(x)*g(x)?

coefficient anbm, not too sure how this helps though
 
If an*bm is not zero, then f(x)*g(x) contains a term of the form an*bm*x^(n+m) and that's the only term of that degree. So the product is probably not 1.
 
But if these are real coefficients then maybe they're small enough so we can choose an x such that the product is equal to 1?
 
"1" has coefficient 0 for all powers of x greater than 0. Not "close to zero". Zero. I'm having a hard time picturing what you are thinking about here. The reals don't have any zero divisors.
 
Firepanda said:
But if these are real coefficients then maybe they're small enough so we can choose an x such that the product is equal to 1?

"x" isn't a number. It's a symbol. This question isn't about roots of a polynomial. Is that what you are thinking?
 
Dick said:
"x" isn't a number. It's a symbol. This question isn't about roots of a polynomial. Is that what you are thinking?

ye i was thinking that, guess that's why I'm having a hard time understanding

I can just go by the degrees of 1 and the product of the polynomials are different then as above?

Thanks
 
  • #10
Yes, you can. Two polynomials in the "ring of polynomials" are equal only if all of their coefficients are equal. Look back at the definition of "ring of polynomials". Nothing to do with whether they are equal for some particular value of x.
 

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