First-variational and second-variational eigenvectors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of first-variational and second-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues in the context of density functional theory (DFT) and Kohn-Sham equations. Participants explore the meanings and implications of these terms, particularly in relation to different basis sets and the variational principle.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that first-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues correspond to the wave functions and eigen energies of the Kohn-Sham equation.
  • Another participant explains that the second-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues can be viewed as an alternative expression of the variational principle using a different coordinate scheme.
  • A participant questions whether the first-variational and second-variational eigenvectors are equal, seeking clarification with a specific example from the Kohn-Sham equation.
  • One participant proposes that different basis sets can be used to expand the Hamiltonian, leading to the same eigenvalues but different eigenvectors, while expressing doubt about the classification of these as first or second variational principles.
  • Another participant agrees with the analysis regarding UltrafastPED and suggests that the second-variational step involves adding magnetic fields, spin-orbit coupling, and an A field using the first-variational step as a basis, while questioning the terminology of "variational."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between first-variational and second-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues, with some suggesting they are equivalent while others argue they are not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise definitions and implications of these terms.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the terminology and the conditions under which the first and second variational principles apply, as well as the specific implications of using different basis sets in the context of the Kohn-Sham equation.

Douasing
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Dear all,
Recenty,I am reading the source code of the first-principle software.I meet some words that I haven't found in those DFT books.For example,it mentions the first-variational and second-variational eigenvectors. Similarly,the first-variational and second-variational eigenvalues are mentioned.In my opinion,the first-vatiational eigenvectors and eigenvalues should be the wave functions and eigen energies of Kohn-sham equation.But what is the meaning of the second-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues ?
Regards.
 
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Usually it is an alternative expression of the variational principle using an alternative coordinate scheme. Thus you have two ways of expressing the eigenvectors. This is often useful, but not always.
 
UltrafastPED said:
Usually it is an alternative expression of the variational principle using an alternative coordinate scheme. Thus you have two ways of expressing the eigenvectors. This is often useful, but not always.


Thank you for your explaining.So,actually,the first-variational eigenvectors and eigenvalues are equal to the second, am I right for understanding that ?
Could you give me a simple example to illustrate that using the following Kohn-sham equation,i.e.,
[tex][\frac{1}{2}∇^{2}+V(r)+U(r)+V_{xc}(r)]\phi_{i}(r)=E_{i}\phi_{i}(r)[/tex]
Maybe I don't clear why it is often useful but not always.
 
If I understand UltrafastPED right, then you can choose different basis sets to expand the Hamiltonian, and solve the ks equation. As the two basis sets are related by unitary transformation (hope so), their eigenvalues are the same, but eigenvectors wouldn't. But I doubt this is the first/second variational principles.
 
bsmile said:
If I understand UltrafastPED right, then you can choose different basis sets to expand the Hamiltonian, and solve the ks equation. As the two basis sets are related by unitary transformation (hope so), their eigenvalues are the same, but eigenvectors wouldn't. But I doubt this is the first/second variational principles.

Yes,bsmile,your analysis is very reasonable.Maybe UltrafastPED is not right.So-called the second-variational eigenvectors or eigenvalues,actually,it means that in the second-variational step, the magnetic fields, spin-orbit coupling and A field are added using the first-variational step as a basis.
please see:http://www2.mpi-halle.mpg.de/theory_department/research/elk_code_development/
But,I am not very clear why it is called the second-variational step(especially,the word "variational").
 

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