Florida Collapsed Condominium had been sinking since 1990s

[artis]

That's right @Tom.G rust much like frozen water expands so in climate where there is also freezing this problem is twice as large because the rusted rebar opens up sub mm cracks and water then gets into them and freezes up and does an even better job at opening up concrete.

As for the rusted rebar well I would argue that in many projects the rebar arrives at site already brown colored , one would need to use stainless steel for rebar to avoid rusting completely or use some expensive painting of the rebar prior to insertion.

 

[Astronuc]

Sara Nir and her daughter Chani Nir, who escaped Champlain Towers moments before the condo collapsed last week, told CNN's John Berman on Tuesday night that they initially thought neighbors were doing construction.

Nir said she had just returned home to her two children around 12:30 a.m. ET when she started hearing “knocking sounds.”

As sounds became increasingly louder, Nir said she started to believe neighbors were doing “major construction,” and she went to speak to the building’s security guard about the early morning disturbance.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/mi...e-06-30-21/h_b6d81cbe1f1752b2c1ec202b423e6320

I wonder if the knocking sounds were concrete cracking or rebar losing adhesion with the concrete or rebar fracturing.

I'm curious about the rebar still protruding/hanging from the standing structure. What can be learned?

If one column dropped or fractured, then its load would be transmitted to adjacent columns, and horizontal joints would likely fail. The rebar in the flooring and support beams would serve to pull adjacent columns from the vertical.

​

How can a building just collapse?​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/opin...-collapse-how-could-it-happen-kara/index.html

 

[Twigg]

There was some mention that there were roof repairs underway before the collapse. Do you think they might've tightened the PT rods as part of their maintenance? If the PT rods go all the way down to foundation, it might've been related. But OTOH I feel like when this scenario played out in the 2018 FIU pedestrian bridge collapse, the media immediately reported that workers had tensioned the PT rods shortly before collapse.

 

[Astronuc]

tightened the PT rods as part of their maintenance? If the PT rods go all the way down to foundation,

It's not clear that PT rebar was used, and certainly not in the vertical columns. I've only seen post-tension rebar in nuclear plant containment buildings, concrete pressure vessels and other special applications, long span structures, like the pedestrian bridge that collapsed.

Concerning PT tension systems -
https://www.structuraltechnologies.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/PT_Buildings.pdf
See - 3. Applications of Post-Tensioning in BuildingsAn interesting perspective on the 'horror of Surfside'.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/06/the-horror-of-the-surfside-building-collapse.html

 

[Astronuc]

Surfside building collapse latest: Death toll rises to 18 after 2 children found​

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/...-collapse-latest-12-dead-149-missing-78574497

At least 18 people are dead and 145 others remain unaccounted for after a 12-story residential building partially collapsed in South Florida's Miami-Dade County last week, officials said.

The massive search and rescue operation marked its seventh day on Wednesday as crews continued to carefully comb through pancaked piles of debris in hopes of finding survivors. The partial collapse occurred around 1:15 a.m. local time Thursday at the Champlain Towers South condominium in the small, beachside town of Surfside, about 6 miles north of Miami Beach.

Edit/update:

Most of the board members of the Florida condo building that collapsed resigned in 2019 as debate raged over the cost of repairs, The Washington Post reported.

The board only voted in favour of the $15 million in repairs in April 2021, the Post reported, though dozens of residents had voiced complaints about how high that figure was.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/most-of-the-collapsed-florida-condo-board-members-resigned-in-2019-amid-disputes-about-the-cost-of-repairs-that-never-went-ahead/ar-AALEYL8

Rescuers report hearing cracks in remaining structure​

The remaining structure was cleared by rescue crews last week, and all resources have since been shifted to focusing on the debris, according to Jadallah. Hundreds of first responders and volunteers have been working around the clock to locate any survivors or human remains in the wreckage. However, poor weather conditions and concerns about the stability of the still-standing building have periodically forced them to pause their efforts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/surfside-building-collapse-latest-rescuers-hear-cracks-in-remaining-structure/ar-AALEihf

Figuring out what really happened in the Miami condo collapse could take more than a year, expert says​

https://www.insider.com/miami-condo-collapse-year-to-understand-expert-2021-6

 

[russ_watters]

Eyewitnesses (including one who died) reported a parking lot and pool deck collapsing before the building came down:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/g...aused-building-to-fall-near-miami/7795023002/

 

[Vanadium 50]

I think there is an attempt to turn this into a morality play too soon.

The first attempt was to cast the rich, evil fat cats who owned the building as villains and the noble residents as heroes, or at least victims. The problem is, as pointed out upthread, that this is a condo, so our heroes and villains are the same people.

The second draft of the play could be titled "if only they had listened to the experts".

A few problems: one is that "the building is sinking" paper (which started this thread) does not suggest any urgent action, or even that this building is at particular risk, or even that this is the worst spot: it's #4 (or lower) in Miami Beach, and there are spots in Norfolk with 3x the rate.

A second is that the Morabito report did not say "this is an immediate safety hazard". It did say there was a "major error", but that was in regard to the pool and parking garage. Aha! You say - the pool and parking garage collapsed first and took the rest of the building with it! Thing is, the pool is still there:

Finally, the idea that the residents weren't repairing anything isn't true. They were in fact working on the roof at the time of collapse (which might or might not have had anything to do with it). At best one can say the residents were repairing things in the wrong order, but in our morality play that sounds like a pretty venial sin.

As an aside, I will believe an accident construction ahead of witness sequencing of events. One may notice Event A before Event B, but that does not mean Event A caused Event B, or even that Event A began before Event B.

 

[fresh_42]

The only issue with morality is in my opinion that I think everybody including the engineers underestimated the implications of ground, weather, water, and salt on the essential parts of the structure. Maybe herd effects added to the problem: "Wait until the neighbours take action and see how it goes. They must have the same issues." Sure, this is pure speculation but based on the knowledge of human behaviour.

That it is a beachside property and what that means could be addressed to the entire mankind. We tend to build cities in swamps (Mexico City, Berlin, New Orleans), at coastlines (NYC, HK), in deltas (Kolkata), deserts (Las Vegas), seismic active zones (Tokyo, San Francisco), etc. All those places are problematic.

 

[Vanadium 50]

swamps (Mexico City, Berlin, New Orleans),

Washington DC.

They can't all be Lincoln, Nebraska.

 

[russ_watters]

I think there is an attempt to turn this into a morality play too soon.

When something bad happens due to human factors, it is natural to try to assign blame, and speculate while learning. We're not the lawyers who filed the lawsuit the next day based on speculation here.

The second draft of the play could be titled "if only they had listened to the experts".

Yes we are seeing mixed messaging from the experts as well as some positive (if slow) motion from the powers that be.

While I do still see negligence, this does not appear as clear cut as the Pier 34 collapse, in which the owners basically opened the club after the engineer told them the collapse was in progress.

As an aside, I will believe an accident construction ahead of witness sequencing of events. One may notice Event A before Event B, but that does not mean Event A caused Event B, or even that Event A began before Event B.

Well...not to be too morbid, but some of these eyewitness accounts of the timeline basically have to be accurate because the collapse of the building was the last event they could witness. You can't witness the pool deck collapse after the building if you die when the building collapses. The one witness was literally on the phone with her husband, describing the scene until she died in the collapse.

On the positive side, watching part of the lower structure collapse before the tower led several people to evacuate and survive.

 

[russ_watters]

The only issue with morality is in my opinion that I think everybody including the engineers underestimated the implications of ground, weather, water, and salt on the essential parts of the structure. Maybe herd effects added to the problem: "Wait until the neighbours take action and see how it goes. They must have the same issues." Sure, this is pure speculation but based on the knowledge of human behaviour.

That it is a beachside property and what that means could be addressed to the entire mankind. We tend to build cities in swamps (Mexico City, Berlin, New Orleans), at coastlines (NYC, HK), in deltas (Kolkata), deserts (Las Vegas), seismic active zones (Tokyo, San Francisco), etc. All those places are problematic.

Sure, but building collapses like this are extraordinarily rare, at least in the West.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well...not to be too morbid, but some of these eyewitness accounts basically have to be accurate because the collapse of the building was the last event they could witness.

My point is that what people report is not necessarily what happened. "Part A collapsed before Part B" is a statement of what happened "I saw Part A collapsing before I saw Part B" is a different statement. Things can happen out of view, and things can happen before they get your attention.

I may amend what I said - it looks like the pool deck remained in one piece, but has lost support on the side farthest from the building. Of course this makes it at least as hard to reconcile with "the pool took down the building" theory.

 

[Astronuc]

Structural failures are rare, but they do happen, and when they do engineers like myself want to know why. Afterall, we follow various strict design codes, e.g., ASME BPV code, which was established based on understanding failures in the distant past before such codes existed. Similarly, there are building codes that exist to ensure site characterization is appropriate, building design and materials are appropriate, construction methods are appropriate, and building maintenance (including periodic inspections) is appropriate, . . . . Maybe there are deficiency in one or more codes/regulations.

Residential buildings should not collapse, especially where there is not dramatic force like a tornado, hurricane or earthquake. If however, there is water, especially seawater, intrusion, or a ground is unstable, then that needs to be determined, and the matter addressed.

Something went majorly wrong under Chaplain Towers South. It could have been an initial design flaw/error, or materials, or environmental degradation, . . . . , or a combination. There were yellow/orange flags (alerts/warnings) and red flags (MC findings, and more recent observations), that went unheeded for too long, or otherwise, delays in addressing the problem because it cost too much.

We have to wait until the literally get to the bottom of the structure. If it si determined that a sinkhole developed, then we have to ask how and why, and also why such a structure was build on unstable ground. If seawater infiltrated the foundation, we need to know how and why, especially given the MC report indicating extensive damage that need immediate or near-term (months, not years) remediation. The MC report also flagged what appeared to be superficial damage to walls, concrete on balconies and exterior walls, but the more serious damage to the foundation (concrete cracking/spallation and rebar corrosion) was not addressed.

Daily News - The deadliest building collapses in U.S. history​

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0210624-qb7erjrfnnctzfls2inqla22ye-story.html

July 17, 1981: The second- and fourth-story walkways inside the Hyatt Regency hotel in Kansas City, Mo., collapsed onto the lobby, killing 114 and injuring 200. Around 1,600 people were in the atrium of the building at the time for a Friday night dance party. The incident remains the deadliest non-deliberate structural failure in U.S. history and has become a common case study in engineering classes.

I remember the failure, and it was discussed in mechanical/civil engineering classes as a case study.

Some of the other, more recent, events I remember hearing about, including the pier collapse at a nightclub at Pier 34 in Philadelphia that Russ mentioned.

At CTS, perhaps more than 160 people were killed making it one of the worst building failures of its kind in recent history.

 

[Astronuc]

I may amend what I said - it looks like the pool deck remained in one piece, but has lost support on the side farthest from the building. Of course this makes it at least as hard to reconcile with "the pool took down the building" theory.

I don't believe failure of the pool deck would 'take down the building', but rather whatever caused that part of the structure to fail is probably related to whatever caused the building to fail. If there was a dramatic collapse, e.g., a sinkhole developing, under the structure, it might have been enough to undermine the pool deck/parking garage and the building foundation at the critical spot. The part that is still standing would seem to be on firmer (maybe drier, or less saturated) ground, and even the eastern most portion may have remained standing had the initial failure not pulled it off-balance.

Investigators will have to get down below the foundation to find out if subsidence or collapse of the geologic formation has occurred.

When I was at university, I took a part-time job working in the campus buildings and ground department. One of the jobs I did was service pumps, motors and generators, and I did this for one building that was built over spring! The building had a basement and sub-basement, and we had to make sure that the sump pump and backups worked, as well as the emergency generator worked, since if power was lost for too long, the sub-basement and possibly basement would flood and destroy all the equipment (hot water, air conditions, ventilation, . . . .) and offices in the basement area.

 

[artis]

See this demolition from CDI, also in Miami.
For those that don't want the whole deal start from 18:00
You will see there in action what I told here before , they detonated a single column on a structure that judging from the video seems like a on site cast reinforced concrete structure with vertical columns and floor slabs all being monolith.
And from what it seems the part where the column was cut isn't even at the top of the building where there would be much less gravity load on the column but rather at the lower part of it.
The building did not collapse afterwards , instead the vertical load of that column was distributed within the floor slabs that connect to it to adjacent columns.

I would argue that for a properly built reinforced concrete structure the loss of single column should not result in structural failure.Now in the Champlain towers case there were no explosives and no single column was detonated or cut, so I think that even more my argument holds , even a column in bad shape with rusted rebar etc, cannot lose it's vertical loading capability suddenly and abruptly and all at once.
The only way I see a column could lose it's loading capability completely and suddenly is if it lost ground beneath it.
Also I want to point out that the tower wasn't that big and I would argue that it's structure had the same level of wear throughout it with some part probably being worse and others better. Now if the tower itself , not the ground beneath it or other factors but if the tower itself was supposedly in such a critical condition then how would one explain the argument that half the structure survived the collapse of the other half?
For panel structures that would be easy because panels are welded together which is their weakest point and they usually separate at those points during a collapse. So in the many famous Russian gas explosions in panel concrete apartment structures one can see that only the portion above the weakened part collapses.

But the Champlain tower was a cast monolith reinforced concrete structure so each column was connected to every other one through the floor slabs. When half the building came down at that point the lateral pull on the other half through the rebar and floor slabs was probably immense not to mention the vibration from ground impact etc. Yet the structure is left standing and that seems like a clue to me that the structure itself was maybe not in such a critical condition and there could be other factors that led to it;s partial collapse.

Surely don't take any of this as truth I am just expressing a knowledge based guess here

 

[artis]

ps. as for the PT rebar discussion I think I saw drawings of the towers somewhere online recently at also from the live pictures it seems that all was regular rebar.
Also from what I know PT rebar is almost never used in vertical columns because columns are already under a compression type of load mostly. I think PT is more for longer lateral spans

 

[russ_watters]

Rest of the building likely to be demolished:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...resident-joe-biden-visit-surfside/7823596002/

 

[Vanadium 50]

Rest of the building likely to be demolished

I would have said "certain". How many years of studies would it take to convince you its safe?

 

[fresh_42]

Would be interested to know if there are insurances for complete structure failures.

 

[Astronuc]

Rest of the building likely to be demolished:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...resident-joe-biden-visit-surfside/7823596002/

From the article,

The National Institute of Standards and Technology established a National Construction Safety Team to investigate the building collapse, director James Olthoff said Wednesday evening in Miami.

Olthoff said it will be a "fact-finding, not a fault-finding technical investigation" that could take several years. It won't end until the team finds the "likely cause" of the collapse.

It'll be like the NTSB investigations of an airline crash or a bridge collapse.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/HWY18MH009-investigative-update2.aspx
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/SPC2002.aspx
The main part of the investigation lasted more than 18 months, follow on actions took longer, and access to the accident site was relatively easy compared to the CTS collapse. CTS was 40 years old, while the pedestrian bridge was under construction.

 

[Twigg]

Rest of the building likely to be demolished:

If the lingering tower makes it through next week (tropical storm Elsa expected to make landfall early in the week)

 

[russ_watters]

I would have said "certain". How many years of studies would it take to convince you its safe?

Yeah, infinity. I'm not even sure I want anything to do with an adjacent property, much less the attached rest of the building.

The article's wording is a little off (so much of that...), but it implies an imminent demolition. Like, trying to demolish safely and without adding additional rubble on top of the recovery operation, within the next few weeks.

 

[russ_watters]

If the lingering tower makes it through next week (tropical storm Elsa expected to make landfall early in the week)

Yeah, so the article talks about expanding cracks on a day-to-day basis, but isn't specific about where they are. "expanding cracks" on that timescale equates to "collapse in progress". That's what preceded the Pier 34 collapse.

 

[Twigg]

Yeah, so the article talks about expanding cracks on a day-to-day basis, but isn't specific about where they are. "expanding cracks" on that timescale equates to "collapse in progress". That's what preceded the Pier 34 collapse.

Oh oops, disregard my comments

 

[Vanadium 50]

Would be interested to know if there are insurances for complete structure failures.

Yes, but whether the peril is covered or not depends on the cause. Fire, for example, is almost always covered. If the underlying cause was the "sinking" discussed in post #1, maybe not, because Earth motion is in the same category as earthquakes, which usually requires an addition to the policy (called a rider).

It is not impossible that the units destroyed in the initial collapse were not covered but rhe ones that will be destroyed in the upcoming demolition will be.

 

[russ_watters]

Oh oops, disregard my comments

Using my mentor supermediocrepowers for good, I read the post you deleted, and honestly it looked fine to me. Yeah, I don't know how easy it is going to be to bring down the rest of the building safely. If I were a structural engineer, I don't think I'd want to even be walking around in the rest of the building inspecting cracks that are growing as I look at them. And I definitely wouldn't feel good about climbing around on the rubble pile with a compromised structure looming over me.

 

[Astronuc]

Yeah, so the article talks about expanding cracks on a day-to-day basis, but isn't specific about where they are.

I noticed that as well, and that's annoying, since it's critical information. One cannot tell if it's columns of the failed section, or columns in the portion still standing. I read in a different article about cracking or noises from the northwest section, the part still standing but damage when the collapsed section pulled away. I notice floors on the exposed (eastern) face are sagging, so they have been compromised. The foundation or subsurface could be shifting, and I think it likely the structure would collapse onto the existing collapse pile.Edit/Update: Daily Mail, Miami condo collapse: Officials review work of suspended inspector
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-condo-collapse-officials-review-work-of-suspended-inspector/ar-AALFjEH

A Florida building inspector who assured residents of the collapsed tower that it was in good shape a month after being warned otherwise is having all of his previous work reviewed after being suspended from his new job.

Meanwhile, it has also been disclosed that the entire building department for the town of Surfside was under review at the time of the collapse.

Rosendo Prieto was chief building official of Surfside until November 2020. On Tuesday, he was placed on leave from his job as interim building official for C.A.P. Government Inc.

Now, city officials in Doral are planning on reviewing his previous work to make sure he didn't clear other buildings that may be dangerous.

 

[anorlunda]

With all this talk about sinking and salt water intrusion I see no mention of the tides. The former maintenance man mentioned "spring tides" and with tides we have currents. I don't mean swift water currents, but nonzero motion of water that can remove a small bit of material from the karst below the slabs with each tidal cycle. That makes analysis more difficult, and comparison with similar structures less relevant. Even the buildings across the street might have substantially different subsurface conditions.

It would be reasonable to expect all the other high rise buildings in the area to react with "an abundance of caution." A news report earlier this week said that a 6 story condo on the Miami River announced a $1 million per unit assessment to make repairs. Even rich people can find that $1 million here and another $1 million there starts adding up to big money. Couple that with beach erosion and alarmist predictions of sea level rise (my ridiculous neighbor believes 60 m rise this century instead of 60 cm) and what happens to the resale value of those condos? I expect that the owners may soon be financially underwater [inadvertent pun].

 

[Twigg]

I'm glad they're reviewing Prieto's other decisions. I hope for his sake that it was a case of not enough visible information for him to see the problem, and not gross negligence; however, given the 2018 reports that seems unlikely. Hope he remembers how to flip burgers.

It seems like rescue efforts have resumed according to NPR. Putting this all together, it seems that (1) there are expanding cracks somewhere in the structure, (2) either the cracks aren't in a critical location or the first responders are risking it anyways to try and find survivors before Elsa makes landfall, and (3) they are planning to take down the lingering building safely (?) assuming it doesn't collapse on its own in the next week or so.

Using my mentor supermediocrepowers for good, I read the post you deleted, and honestly it looked fine to me

Since my now-deleted comments seem relevant again, I'll repeat them here. Imagine you got the the job to demolish the remaining tower. Normally, you'd go to the city government office and grab the building plans, and spend a lot of time planning what features to manually cut and where to place explosives to bring down the building in a controlled manner. This time, the building is progressively collapsing, you don't know how much of the planned structure has failed, and you probably can't send anyone inside or underneath. You're also on an accelerated time table to bring the building down safely before it comes down whichever way it pleases. It will probably be wet, if the building survives the storm, and you still have all the usual hazards of working with explosives (imagine you push the detonator button and nothing happens. What do you do?). TL;DR version: YIKES!

The media seems to be repeatedly asking about the use of drones/robots for rescue work. I know no one has brought it up here, because I think the folks on this thread all know it's for the most part a ridiculous proposition. But since it's taken public interest, I just want to comment briefly. I'm under the impression that even the internet-famous dancing robots of Boston Dynamics don't have the agility to walk over a debris field, much less have the smarts to search for survivors (putting aside the not-killing-them during rescue aspect of things). I assume tread or wheel based machines don't stand a chance with this much physical obstruction. This doesn't even touch on the issue of on-the-spot problem solving capability that's necessary for unpredictable situations. What I can see being useful here are remote-controlled drones with IR cameras for looking for heat signatures (survivors, fires inside the debris pile, etc). Also drones with regular cameras for inspecting inaccessible parts of the remaining structure (even if it doesn't totally collapse from the ground up, it's just as bad if it starts raining cinderblocks from the top).

 

[artis]

@Twigg your assessment of media hype is well correct but I personally think that IR cameras are of little use here because I doubt a human body's heat signature can be captured if that body lies beneath several layers of reinforced concrete floor slabs. A building type like this when it collapses it doesn't turn into dust instead the vertical columns break and fall sideways while the large floor slabs just pancake one on top of the other they break apart but still they cover a large area much like sheets stacked on top one another.
I'd say regular cameras on long extensions work better here as they can be inserted into the maze of rubble.
As for the remaining structure my personal bet is that left as is it would collapse downwards just like the other part did and as most buildings do whether accidentally or in a controlled demolition the reason I think is because the vertical downforce due to gravity is much larger than any other lateral force that would sway the structure sideways , I mean you would need an extremely strong wind to blow a heavy 12 story concrete structure sideways but the weight of the building on the other hand is quite enough to make it fall vertically down even if the first weak spot or break happens asymmetrically.

In fact I think we all know of an infamous real life proof of this. Remember the 9/11 World Trade Center's south tower which got hit asymmetrically in one of it's corners where the most mechanical damage and heat load was located , when it started to collapse it's upper roughly 25 floors started to fall asymmetrically to one side , you can even see in the videos the whole upper part tilting visibly and strongly to one side at that point it even seemed it will topple over and fall on the adjacent buildings and streets but as it fell it rather soon "straightened" itself out and by the end of it the collapse was rather symmetrical and pretty much within the footprint of the building.
The reason I think is this, because for a heavy structure the downwards force due to gravity + inertia from movement (after collapse has initiated) is much much larger than any other lateral force like wind or asymmetrical breakage point within the structure.

 

[Astronuc]

Cassie Stratton was on the phone with her out-of-town husband, looking down from her fourth-floor balcony in horror as part of the pool deck below apparently vanished into a sink hole.

She "told him that the pool was collapsing, that the ground was shaking and cracking," Stratton's sister, Ashley Dean, told CNN's John Berman. "It's my understanding that she let out a very loud scream and the phone went dead."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/us/surfside-condo-collapse-questions-unanswered-invs/index.html

from what is known to date, the tower's cave-in resembles less a cataclysmic event than a slow-motion catastrophe, made possible by years of missed warnings, mixed messaging and delayed action, according to public records, including emails and inspection reports, as well as experts who have spoken with CNN.

The true toll of the collapse, of course, remains buried in the rubble. Authorities have confirmed at least 22 deaths, along with 126 unaccounted for.

In recent years selling prices in the building have remained high. A week before the disaster, a three-bedroom condo there sold for $710,000, according to realty company Redfin. The price of most condos ranged from $295,000 (for a one-bedroom in March 2020) to $980,000 (for a three-bedroom a year later), real estate records indicate.

Morabito Consultants, the engineering firm hired to conduct the review, noted "abundant cracking and spalling" in concrete columns, beams and walls, "exposed, deteriorating rebar" and failing waterproofing beneath the pool deck and entrance that was causing "major structural damage."

Also, a photo taken that year by a mechanical engineering firm shows a crack around the edge of a beam running along the top of the room. Engineers and experts consulted by CNN said it appears the same crack is visible in a photograph of the pool equipment room taken just days before the collapse -- only the latter photo, first published by the Miami Herald, shows the crack in much worse condition.

Mounting repairs and sticker shock: 'This is where we are now'

About a month after the report was released by Morabito, a condo association member, Mara Chouela, forwarded a copy of it to Surfside's building official, Rosendo Prieto. Prieto came to the board's regular meeting a couple days later and shared his professional opinion, saying the building appears to be "in very good shape," according to minutes of the meeting.

 

[anorlunda]

There is more to question than just the engineering. If building management is the responsibility of the condo associations, and the boards of those associations are staffed by residents, then most will be amateur. Worse, board members are not only inexperienced, they are conflicted.

Perhaps building codes for multifamily dwellings need to be expanded to cover not only design and construction, but also ongoing management and finance.

 

[Twigg]

@Astronuc, knowing (assuming it's true) that Prieto saw the report ahead of time, I take back my previous statement. No one should trust this guy with flipping burgers even.

I'm sure you all saw, another condo building, Crestview Towers, was evacuated after the emergency review process on buildings older than 40 years showed structural damage that had been reported back in January 'of this year (haven't seen any media outlet elaborate on what variety of damage it was). At least some good may be coming out of all this.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Perhaps building codes for multifamily dwellings need to be expanded to cover not only design and construction, but also ongoing management and finance.

Why just multifamily?

 

[anorlunda]

Why just multifamily?

Fair question. Modern life is full of arbitrary distinctions like that. You need a license to drive a car, but not a bicycle.