For those of you who do a lot of maths, why?

[Math Is Hard]

You're only saying that because your parents are monitoring your activities on PF. You haven't told them about the calculator collection hidden in the crawl space above your closet, have you.

shhh.. you're going to give me away.

p.s. http://www.neaca.com/images/SA105_HRT28_Micky_Mouse_Calculator_.JPG"

 

[Gear300]

Funny thing is that most people do math without knowing what math is.

 

[JasonRox]

To do mathematics because you feel superior?

I don't think I do anything for that reason. I do it because I simply enjoy it. Simple as that.

 

[WarPhalange]

I think it's funnier that people think math is just about arithmetic. I'm only getting enough math for a physics degree and I'm already amazed how much more there is to math. The tiny bits I get every now and then in like topology or number theory or whatnot just blows my mind.

 

[humanino]

it's funnier that people think math is just about arithmetic.

I do not see what in this thread makes you say that. Maybe you have recently discovered that. But nobody here as suggested that.
MIH was obviously joking !

 

[ForMyThunder]

For me, it is a way to find out what the truth behind our world is.

"Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe." -Galileo Galilei-

 

[Werg22]

I always find it strange when people pull quotes like these. For me, mathematics is to the mathematical sciences what grammar is to literature. It's just the formal study of the underlying structure, there's nothing mystic or grandiose about it.

 

[WarPhalange]

I do not see what in this thread makes you say that. Maybe you have recently discovered that. But nobody here as suggested that.
MIH was obviously joking !

No, sorry, I didn't mean anybody in this thread. I meant laypeople. Like that lady from the Verizon customer support who couldn't divide two numbers and her excuse was "I'm not a mathematician."

Math is so much more than arithmetic, but most people haven't the slightest clue about that.

 

[humanino]

I always find it strange when people pull quotes like these. For me, mathematics is to the mathematical sciences what grammar is to literature. It's just the formal study of the underlying structure, there's nothing mystic or grandiose about it.

Many people have a "mathematical sensibility". I enjoy often deep intense pleasure from a proof, pretty much similar to artistic pleasure shared by many about a painting or a musical piece. Except it's better

 

[~christina~]

shhh.. you're going to give me away.

p.s. http://www.neaca.com/images/SA105_HRT28_Micky_Mouse_Calculator_.JPG"

Why can't a TI-83 Plus have something fun like that

 

[tgt]

LOL doing math to feel superior? Superior to who? The guy who has a well paying job and a girlfriend while you make half as much as he does and you haven't spoken to another person in 3 days?

To do mathematics because you feel superior?

I don't think I do anything for that reason. I do it because I simply enjoy it. Simple as that.

For many mathematicians, the opportunity cost is extremely high because instead they could be working in the 'real-world' making huge money. Being able to have a lot of 'things' is always desirable so the mathematician must have some very good reasons for doing what he does.

 

[Howers]

There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego. I personally got involved with math because of the large amounts of time I had to invest in it at the beggining, and as with anything you lose sleep over, it became an obsession. No longer was math a tool for my science courses, afterwards it was a contest to my ability. It has taught me to be logical and has made me very skeptical about all the sciences. Apart from the methodology of math, which is an excellent mental exercise, it is a beautiful subject. You don't find such concreteness and beauty anywhere, aside from maybe music.

It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it. In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use. That comes from only personal experience though, as you can see by the way I write.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.

 

[humanino]

Do you know André Weil ? The legend saying he "was saved from being shot" is probably apocryphal. It is however true that he made his most important contribution while in prison. Among which a proof of the Riemann hypothesis for local zeta-functions... So maybe it's best for mathematicians not to interact to much with other human beings sometimes, so they can concentrate (sorry for the allusion, true it's very, very bad humor)...

Just thought it was worth mentioning the anecdote at this point.

 

[tgt]

There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego. I personally got involved with math because of the large amounts of time I had to invest in it at the beggining, and as with anything you lose sleep over, it became an obsession. No longer was math a tool for my science courses, afterwards it was a contest to my ability. It has taught me to be logical and has made me very skeptical about all the sciences. Apart from the methodology of math, which is an excellent mental exercise, it is a beautiful subject. You don't find such concreteness and beauty anywhere, aside from maybe music.

It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it. In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use. That comes from only personal experience though, as you can see by the way I write.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.

What level of study of maths are you on at the moment?

 

[cristo]

There is a sense of superiority gained from doing math. Not the kind that you shove in other people's face, but one that satisfies my ego.

That's not a sense of superiority, but is merely a sense of achievement.

It does come with a price though. I will have to second that mathemeticians live sheltered lives. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, because everything else is trivial in comparission to a deep theory. I don't agree with how the poster said it, but math takes an insane amount of time to do and it is natural to give up a social life while studying it.

I have to disagree with this. Firstly, life is not "trivial" compared to mathematics. Secondly, one does not need to give up a social life in order to study mathematics. I have an degree in mathematics and, whilst I perhaps spent more time studying than some of the people I lived with, I certainly did not give up on having a social life!

In fact, I would go as far as saying it even damages your verbal reasoning because you get accustomed to a very precise language and a symbolic language that ordinary people don't use.

Rubbish: mathematics will only damage your ability to write if you let it. Then again, the mere fact that you call non-mathematicians "ordinary people" tells me that you have succumbed to the stereotypes.

In any case, I'd rather study Galois theory instead of spiking my hair and wondering if the bimbo next to me is interested in small talk.

Why can't one do both?

 

[humanino]

Firstly, life is not "trivial" compared to mathematics.

I never knew if this quotation was genuine :

If people do not believe that mathematics is simple, it is only because they do not realize how complicated life is.

 

[Howers]

What level of study of maths are you on at the moment?

Almost done 3rd year honors, which includes complex and real analysis. I've done basic abstract algebra, but I still need to take a real course in it (I am behind in my algebra). I have basic topology and diff. geometry under my belt. By next year Ill have PDE and maybe general diff geometry, and hopefully Archimedes Works down.

That's not a sense of superiority, but is merely a sense of achievement.

I have to disagree with this. Firstly, life is not "trivial" compared to mathematics. Secondly, one does not need to give up a social life in order to study mathematics. I have an degree in mathematics and, whilst I perhaps spent more time studying than some of the people I lived with, I certainly did not give up on having a social life!

Rubbish: mathematics will only damage your ability to write if you let it. Then again, the mere fact that you call non-mathematicians "ordinary people" tells me that you have succumbed to the stereotypes.


Why can't one do both?

I didn't say life is trivial. It depends on how you define life though. If your idea of life is going to parties every week then yes, that is trivial. You obviously still need to have friends. But lately I've noticed it annoys me when my group of friends invite me to see a movie or something. I go for the sake of being with my friends, but I much prefer us working on a hard problem or something.

I still stand by saying that a lot of math people give up social lives, especially when learning it. I don't know what sort of math you've done, because from what I know you are a physicist. All I know is in honors math some people even forget their own age, and I never hear them talk about how trashed they got over the weekend... something I hear a lot in biology.

And math, more than any other subject, does have its own language. That doesn't make a person who studies math superior to say a scientist, but it does mean that one gets used to absolute logic that has little use in social interactions. I was using ordinary people in the context as ones you would socialize with, ie. people at a bar or club.

 

[humanino]

If your idea of life is going to parties every week then yes, that is trivial.

This discussion has little point in my understanding. Why would that be restricted to mathematicians in particular ? Anybody has the right to spoil his life with clubbing. Anybody dedicated (to anything serious, creative) has the right to think those people loose their time. However, if you talk to a clubber he will very likely disagree with you and think the other person is loosing his time and has not realized how short life is.

As you say, and this is crucial : it depends on how you define life. Your definition is no more valid than other people's definition.

 

[cristo]

I go for the sake of being with my friends, but I much prefer us working on a hard problem or something.

Well, that's your prerogative, but I don't see why anyone would want to study all the time.

I still stand by saying that a lot of math people give up social lives, especially when learning it. I don't know what sort of math you've done, because from what I know you are a physicist.

Mainly applied/math physics (relativity, quantum theory, fluid mechanics, electromagnetism, etc..), but I also studied a fair amount of pure mathematics (alegbra, analysis (real and complex) differential geometry, pde's, etc..) Anyway, from my experience, students do not "give up their social lives" whilst studying. Yes, of course, study takes time, but not 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

And math, more than any other subject, does have its own language. That doesn't make a person who studies math superior to say a scientist, but it does mean that one gets used to absolute logic that has little use in social interactions. I was using ordinary people in the context as ones you would socialize with, ie. people at a bar or club.

This seems to be a pretty serious problem that I have only really noticed by frequenting this forum: namely that a lot of scientists (or science students) do not know how to socialise. I've never found this problem in real life, but then again I may just not talk to the ones that aren't good at socialising! An extremely important thing, in my opinion, is the ability to socialise with people who are not mathematicians/physicists. I've got lots of friends who do not have the slightest clue about anything scientific, but that doesn't stop me having conversations with them, or socialising with them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would class myself (and the other mathematicians/physicists I know well enough to have a conversation with) as "ordinary" people. Afterall, everyone has a job, but there is no need to talk about it all the time!

 

[tgt]

This seems to be a pretty serious problem that I have only really noticed by frequenting this forum: namely that a lot of scientists (or science students) do not know how to socialise.

The reason for some not socialising could be more to do with them having some kind of mental condition which prohibits them or makes socialising extremely uncomfortable. The ones that don't have this mental condition should be able to adequately socialise.