Force acting on bob of Foucault's pendulum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the forces acting on the bob of a Foucault pendulum, particularly at the North Pole, and how these forces relate to the consistent clockwise rotation of the pendulum's plane. Participants explore the implications of the Coriolis effect and the mechanics of pendulum motion in a rotating reference frame.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the forces acting on the pendulum bob as it moves towards the east and questions how the plane can rotate consistently when the forces change direction.
  • Another participant suggests that the consistent rotation of the pendulum's plane is due to the Earth's rotation, noting that the shadow of the bob turns clockwise over time.
  • A later reply agrees with the observation of clockwise rotation but seeks to understand the underlying reasons, particularly regarding the Coriolis force and its directional changes.
  • One participant comments on the choice of directional references at the North Pole, questioning the use of east and west in this context.
  • Another participant argues that the Coriolis force is not a real force and depends on the frame of reference, suggesting that the pendulum's motion is influenced by the Earth's rotation rather than direct forces acting on the bob.
  • A participant references a video to illustrate the pendulum's motion, emphasizing that the pendulum does not have a fixed oscillation plane in the rotating frame of the Earth and that the path taken is more complex than simple oscillation.
  • One participant explains that applying a force and then an opposite force does not cancel displacement but rather affects velocity, suggesting that the plane's consistent advancement is due to the cancellation of accelerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the observed behavior of the pendulum's plane rotating clockwise; however, there is no consensus on the underlying reasons for this behavior, particularly regarding the role of the Coriolis force and the nature of forces acting on the pendulum bob.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about the nature of forces and reference frames, and there are unresolved questions regarding the interaction between the pendulum's motion and the Earth's rotation.

bksree
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Hi
Assume that the Foucault's pendulum is located in N pole and is oscillating from W to E (x direction). The Z axis is vertically up. The force acting on the bob as it moves from equilibrium position towards E is in the -y direction causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate in CW direction (as viewed from above). When the bob retraces its movement (from E to equilibrium position) the force is in the + y direction, i.e. opposite to the previous case.
Then how does the plane of the pendulum rotate in a consistent manner (i.e. clockwise)

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The plane of the pendulum rotates in a consistent manner because the Earth rotates in a consistent manner. Relative to an imaginary line on the ground marking the initial shadow of the pendulum bob,the new shadow of the bob(or in other words, the plane of the pendulum) will turn clockwise with time.
 
dreamLord said:
The plane of the pendulum rotates in a consistent manner because the Earth rotates in a consistent manner. Relative to an imaginary line on the ground marking the initial shadow of the pendulum bob,the new shadow of the bob(or in other words, the plane of the pendulum) will turn clockwise with time.

I agree that this is what is observed. The question is why ? if the coriolis force, which causes the plane to rotate, changes direction as mentioned above.
 
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Just a comment about your choice of using directions E(ast) and W(est) to set up your experiment: If you stand at the North pole, can you point towards any direction other than South?

Wikipedia is usually a good place to begin when looking to answer the type of question you're asking. Best not to put 100% confidence in Wiki pages, but usually there is enough correct information to get a searcher started. For the Foucault pendulum there is a very good explanation of the mechanics, including pendulum behaviors at the poles, plus some good animations. Additionally there are further references if the researcher is not satisfied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
 
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bksree said:
I agree that this is what is observed. The question is why ? if the coriolis force, which causes the plane to rotate, changes direction as mentioned above.

My view is as follows: The coriolis force is not a real force and it depends on the frame of reference. It will just cause the path of the bob over the ground not to be a straight line. Because this is an 'ideal situation' (with uniform gravitational field over the site of the pendulum) there will be no interaction with the ground so the bob will not experience any sideways acceleration - being just attracted to the centre of the Earth at all times. What the Earth is doing , beneath the pendulum is not relevant - except that someone on the (rotating) Earth will, of course, see the bob moving in an unexpected way.
 
bksree said:
I agree that this is what is observed. The question is why ? if the coriolis force, which causes the plane to rotate, changes direction as mentioned above.

Check out this video at 1:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49JwbrXcPjc

For a real world Foucault's pendulum those loops you see at the end are even thinner, so it looks like a oscillation plane. But in fact there is no oscillation plane in the rotating reference frame of the Earth. The pendulum makes thin, long loops and returns to the lowest point from a slightly different direction than it left towards.

bksree said:
The force acting on the bob as it moves from equilibrium position towards E is in the -y direction causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate in CW direction (as viewed from above). When the bob retraces its movement (from E to equilibrium position) the force is in the + y direction, i.e. opposite to the previous case. Then how does the plane of the pendulum rotate in a consistent manner (i.e. clockwise)

Applying a force, and then the opposite force for the same duration doesn’t cancel the displacement, just the change in velocity. The "plane" is advancing at a constant rate, because the accelerations cancel. If they didn't cancel, it would advance faster and faster.
 
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