Force Carrier for Electromagnetism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electromagnetism from the perspective of photon force carriers, exploring concepts such as virtual photons, the polarization of electromagnetism, and the relationship between electric and magnetic fields. Participants express confusion regarding these topics and seek clarification on how they interrelate within both classical and quantum frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a model that explains electromagnetism through the lens of photon force carriers, specifically asking about the generation of virtual photons around electrons and the reasons for the polarization of electromagnetism.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the current understanding of these phenomena, suggesting that the emission and absorption of photons during electron transitions may not be fully understood.
  • A suggestion is made that Quantum Field Theory (QFT) might be relevant to the discussion, indicating a potential framework for understanding these concepts.
  • One participant reflects on the mystery of photon creation, likening it to the formation of ocean waves, and discusses the idea of constructive interference in wave phenomena.
  • A later reply emphasizes that classical electromagnetism, as described by Maxwell's Equations, remains valid and relevant, even in the context of QFT, and discusses the mathematical framework involving vector potentials and the transformation properties of electric and magnetic fields.
  • There is a mention of the concept of a "dressed electron," which includes a superposition of the electron and a cloud of photons, suggesting a complex interaction that does not involve simple emission or absorption processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various uncertainties and questions, indicating that there is no consensus on the explanations for the phenomena discussed. Multiple competing views and interpretations are present, particularly regarding the nature of virtual photons and the relationship between electric and magnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the mechanisms behind photon generation and the interplay of electric and magnetic fields, suggesting that these areas may depend on deeper theoretical frameworks that are not fully resolved.

AustinLee
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Can anybody give me or point me to a model that describes how electromagnetism works from a photon force carrier perspective. I like to know how the virtual photons are generated around an electron. Also why electromagnetism is polar. I am also confused why moving electric fields create magnetic fields, and why the magnetic field creates the Lorentz force. The force carrier model seems simple when shown the Feynman diagrams but electromagnetic waves and magnetism confuse me under this model.
 
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you know that's an interesting question and I am not sure physicists know this to the level you're asking.

electrons changing to a lower energy state emit a photon I don't think we can delve into the interaction other than it changes state and a photon of a certain energy is created. Similarly when an electron jumps to a higher state it has absorbed a photon of the exact energy needed to jump. I'm not sure if it can use a photon with a little added energy, absorb it and then spit out a lower energy photon once its made its jump but I don't think its disallowed.

Similarly pulsating EM fields produce radio waves which are photons but how it actually happens is a mystery part of the wave particle duality.

Maybe this will come together once we understand how space is quantized if it is that is.
 
drakkith that looks right. The last section of the wiki talks about using photons in combination where each would be insufficient.

But I'm thinking the actual creation of a photon is the real mystery may be like asking how an ocean wave is formed the moment its formed.
 
jedishrfu said:
But I'm thinking the actual creation of a photon is the real mystery may be like asking how an ocean wave is formed the moment its formed.

What do you mean?
 
i was thinking more of the white crests of the waves as being something that comes into being but really isn't there.

like constructive interference of waves.
 
I like to know how the virtual photons are generated around an electron. Also why electromagnetism is polar. I am also confused why moving electric fields create magnetic fields, and why the magnetic field creates the Lorentz force.
AustinLee, It's important to realize that even now, after the advent of Quantum Field Theory, Maxwell's Equations have not yet been repealed! :wink: So the answers to most of your questions simply fall out from classical electromagnetism. The electromagnetic field is still described by a vector potential Aμ, the difference being that it is now an operator. The interaction is JμAμ, total charge is the integral of J0 which may be either positive or negative, and the Lorentz transformation properties of the electromagnetic field Fμν = Aν,μ - Aμ,ν imply that electric fields become magnetic fields and vice versa in a moving frame.

As to the first question, "how the virtual photons are generated around an electron", it's because in the presence of the interaction term, a bare electron is no longer an eigenstate of the Hamiltonian. The corresponding eigenstate of the full Hamiltonian is a dressed electron, namely a superposition of the electron along with a cloud of one or more photons. (This state is time-independent, so there is no 'emitting' or absorbing' going on, it is simply a superposition.)
 

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