Force of interaction between magnets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force of interaction between an electromagnet and a bar magnet placed coaxially at a distance of approximately 0.5 cm. Participants explore various methods for determining this force, including computational analysis and theoretical approaches, while addressing the complexities involved in the geometry and properties of the magnets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that computational analysis, specifically the finite element method, is necessary to accurately solve the problem due to the complexities of atomic particle interactions.
  • Others argue that the force depends significantly on the geometry and size of the magnets' ends, and inquire about their specific dimensions to provide further guidance.
  • One participant mentions that if the magnets are not too close, dipole-dipole interaction can be treated using formulas found in electromagnetism textbooks.
  • Another participant proposes an expression for the force when the distance between the magnets is small compared to their diameters, suggesting a formula involving magnetization and area.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of approximations when the area of the magnets is comparable to the distance between them, with some participants questioning the applicability of certain formulas under these conditions.
  • Participants discuss the potential impact of the second face of the magnets on the force calculation, with suggestions to treat them as point magnetic charges if they are far enough away.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the best approach to calculate the force between the magnets, as participants present multiple competing views and methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most effective way to proceed with the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the assumptions needed for various calculations, including the effects of geometry, distance, and the properties of the magnets. Limitations in the applicability of certain formulas are noted, particularly concerning the size of the magnets relative to their distance apart.

  • #31
The flat end of a bar magnet acts like a uniformly charge sheet with surface charge ##\sigma_m=M##,in the same way that the end of an electrically polarized rod has a surface charge ##\sigma=P##. Then, just as
##E=2\pi\sigma## just outside a charged surface, ##H=2\pi\sigma_m=2\pi M##, and B=H outside the magnet.
If this doesn't help, you may have to read a book. Also, read my post #29 carefully
 
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  • #32
Meir Achuz said:
The flat end of a bar magnet acts like a uniformly charge sheet with surface charge ##\sigma_m=M##,in the same way that the end of an electrically polarized rod has a surface charge ##\sigma=P##. Then, just as
##E=2\pi\sigma## just outside a charged surface, ##H=2\pi\sigma_m=2\pi M##, and B=H outside the magnet.
If this doesn't help, you may have to read a book. Also, read my post #29 carefully
Thanks for the feedback. But in the formation of your expression you have taken ##B=2\pi(M+M')=4\pi M## i.e ##M=M'## but if we go for derivation of the force expression by using ##B=2\pi(M+M')## for two different M and M' we get ##F=1/2{π(M^2+M'^2+2MM')A}.
Also please refer me a good literature for this.
 
  • #33
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