Force on a magnet inside a short coil

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of the force exerted on a magnet positioned below a short coil, particularly how this force varies with distance from the coil. Participants explore the implications of axial symmetry and consider different configurations of the magnet, including a hollow core design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the force on the magnet acts in opposite directions when positioned above or below the coil, proposing a zero crossing point at the center of the coil.
  • Another participant inquires about the creation of a hollow core magnet and its potential effects on the force experienced.
  • A later reply provides a method for creating a hollow core magnet by drilling a cylindrical piece of iron and applying a strong external magnetic field to align the magnetic domains.
  • One participant argues that there would be no qualitative difference in the force experienced by a solid versus a hollow core magnet, although the actual force may vary due to differences in magnetic pole distribution and the inhomogeneous field of the solenoid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of using a hollow core magnet versus a solid magnet, with some suggesting qualitative differences while others argue there are none. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific effects of the hollow core design on the force experienced.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the assumptions regarding the force distribution and the impact of the hollow core design, leaving open questions about the underlying physics.

CraigH
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The equations are incredibly difficult, so I'm just after a general idea of how the force on a magnet bellow a coil changes with the distance to the coil. Shown bellow:

Code:
Axial symmetry:

o                 x    
o                 x               cross section of coil
o                 x
o                 x
        /\
         x                      displacement (x)
        \/
         _
        | |
        |_|                       cylindrical bar magnet

From intuition, I would say that the force on the magnet is acting in opposite directions when the magnet is above or bellow the coil. So there must be a zero crossing point. It makes sense that this will be in the center of the coil. So in this case the force vs displacement will look something like this, assuming that x=0 is when when the magnet is in the center of the coil. Is this an okay assumption?

How would things change if the magnet had a hollow core: like bellow?

Code:
Axial symmetry:

o                 x   
o                 x               cross section of coil
o                 x
o                 x
    _         _
   | |       | |
   |_|       |_|                  cross section of hollow core magnet
 
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CraigH said:
How would things change if the magnet had a hollow core: like bellow?
How would you create a "hollow core" magnet?
 
Svein said:
How would you create a "hollow core" magnet?

Find a cylindrical piece of iron (or other material that retains a magnetic field), drill a whole through it (like this), and then apply a strong external magnetic field. The magnetic domains in the material should align creating a magnetic annular prism (i.e a hollow core magnet)
 
There would be no qualitative difference between the two situations. the actual force if the pole strengths remained the same may vary somewhat due to the different distribution of the magnetic poles and their position in the relatively inhomogeneous field of the solenoid.
 

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