Force on a pin from a pendulum and a string

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the forces acting on a pendulum system, specifically determining the velocity of a ball at a 30-degree angle from the horizontal and the resulting tension in the string. The calculations involve potential energy (U) and kinetic energy (T) transformations, leading to the derived velocity of 1.025394 m/s and a normal acceleration of 2.62858 m/s². The tension in the rope segment is calculated as -11.6809 N, indicating a misunderstanding in the force balance at the pin, which should yield a net force of 46.7 N. The participants emphasize the importance of consistent height references and the correct application of energy conservation principles.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of potential energy (U) and kinetic energy (T) principles
  • Familiarity with Newton's laws of motion and force summation
  • Knowledge of trigonometric functions, particularly cosine for angle calculations
  • Basic skills in algebra for solving equations involving energy and forces
NEXT STEPS
  • Review energy conservation principles in pendulum motion
  • Study the application of Newton's second law in dynamic systems
  • Learn about the effects of angular displacement on forces in pendulum systems
  • Explore methods for resolving forces in two dimensions, particularly in static equilibrium
USEFUL FOR

Physics students, mechanical engineers, and anyone interested in dynamics and force analysis in pendulum systems will benefit from this discussion.

magnesium12
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Homework Statement
The simple 2-kg pendulum is released from rest in the horizontal position. As it reaches the bottom position, the cord wraps around the smooth fixed pin at B and continues in the smaller arc in the vertical plane. Calculate the magnitude of the force R supported by the pin at B when the pendulum passes the position θ = 30°.
Relevant Equations
ΔU = ΔT (T = kinetic energy, U = potential energy)

T = 0.5mv^2

U = mgh

∑F = ma

a_n = v^2/r (acceleration in normal direction)
240892


1. Determine the velocity of the ball when it is 30degrees from the horizontal:
U1 = mgh = mg(0.8m)
U2 = mgh = mg(0.4+0.4cos(30)) = mg(.74641)
ΔU = U2 - U1 = mg(.74641 - .8) = mg(-0.051433)

T1 =0
T2 = 0.5mv^2
ΔT = T2 - T1 = 0.5mv^2

ΔU = ΔT
mg(-0.051433) = 0.5mv^2 ====> v = 1.025394

2. Use the velocity to find the acceleration in the normal direction (pointing along the string towards the pin):
a_n = v^2/r = 1.025394^2/(0.4m) = 2.62858

3. Sum up the forces along the normal direction acting on the ball to find the tension (S) of the rope segment from the ball to pin:
∑F = S - mgcos30 = ma_n
S = ma_n + mgcos30 = (2*2.62858) + (2*-9.81*cos(30)) = 5.257163 - 16.991418 = -11.6809
S = -11.6809

4.Sum up the forces acting on the pin using the xy coordinate system (?)
This is where I'm confused. The sum of forces on the string should be zero, because the pin isn't moving, shouldn't it? So:
∑F_y = 0 = S_y + R (R = tension in the vertical string segment from pin to ceiling)
So R = S_y = Scos30 = -11.6809cos30 = -10.1159

The answer should be 46.7N but I don't understand how to get there. Can someone please point out where I'm going wrong?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Very early on: in ##\Delta U ##
 
BvU said:
Very early on: in ##\Delta U ##

Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
So from top to vertical (total bottom) it would be
ΔU =ΔT
mg(0.8) = 0.5mv_1^2

Then do the same analysis from bottom to the height at 30deg:
U1 = 0
U2 = mg(0.4-0.4cos30)
T1 = 0.5mv_1^2
T2 = 0.5mv_2^2
ΔU =ΔT
mg(0.4-0.4cos30) = 0.5mv_2^2 - 0.5mv_1^2

Am I thinking about this the right way?
 
Last edited:
magnesium12 said:
Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
Either that, or establish a correct height variable: your original ##\Delta U## for ##\theta=0## would come out as zero !

Then:
magnesium12 said:
The sum of forces on the string should be zero, because the pin isn't moving
is correct, though the logic looks awful. And the pin is held in place by the wall.
 
magnesium12 said:
Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
No, you just need to be consistent in your choice of origin for vertical heights and which way is positive. Your U1 is the PE at A above an origin at the base of the swing, while U2 is the PE at A above an origin at the final point.
(It is usually worthwhile checking that a numeric result looks sensible. Did it not strike you as unlikely that the net fall in height was so small?)
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
11K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
9K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K