Force on a pin from a pendulum and a string

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces acting on a pin from a pendulum and a string, specifically focusing on the calculations related to potential energy, kinetic energy, and tension in the system. The original poster attempts to determine the velocity of a ball at a specific angle and subsequently analyze the forces acting on the pin.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between potential energy and kinetic energy, questioning the calculations of energy changes. Some participants suggest breaking down the motion to account for the shorter string length and reconsidering the choice of height variables. Others raise concerns about the assumptions made regarding the forces acting on the pin and the implications of the pin's stationary position.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and questioning the original poster's reasoning. There is no explicit consensus yet, but some guidance has been offered regarding the need for consistency in height definitions and the implications of the pin being stationary.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential constraints related to the choice of reference points for height and the assumptions about the forces acting on the pin, which may affect the calculations. There is also mention of the original poster's confusion regarding the expected outcome versus their calculations.

magnesium12
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Homework Statement
The simple 2-kg pendulum is released from rest in the horizontal position. As it reaches the bottom position, the cord wraps around the smooth fixed pin at B and continues in the smaller arc in the vertical plane. Calculate the magnitude of the force R supported by the pin at B when the pendulum passes the position θ = 30°.
Relevant Equations
ΔU = ΔT (T = kinetic energy, U = potential energy)

T = 0.5mv^2

U = mgh

∑F = ma

a_n = v^2/r (acceleration in normal direction)
240892


1. Determine the velocity of the ball when it is 30degrees from the horizontal:
U1 = mgh = mg(0.8m)
U2 = mgh = mg(0.4+0.4cos(30)) = mg(.74641)
ΔU = U2 - U1 = mg(.74641 - .8) = mg(-0.051433)

T1 =0
T2 = 0.5mv^2
ΔT = T2 - T1 = 0.5mv^2

ΔU = ΔT
mg(-0.051433) = 0.5mv^2 ====> v = 1.025394

2. Use the velocity to find the acceleration in the normal direction (pointing along the string towards the pin):
a_n = v^2/r = 1.025394^2/(0.4m) = 2.62858

3. Sum up the forces along the normal direction acting on the ball to find the tension (S) of the rope segment from the ball to pin:
∑F = S - mgcos30 = ma_n
S = ma_n + mgcos30 = (2*2.62858) + (2*-9.81*cos(30)) = 5.257163 - 16.991418 = -11.6809
S = -11.6809

4.Sum up the forces acting on the pin using the xy coordinate system (?)
This is where I'm confused. The sum of forces on the string should be zero, because the pin isn't moving, shouldn't it? So:
∑F_y = 0 = S_y + R (R = tension in the vertical string segment from pin to ceiling)
So R = S_y = Scos30 = -11.6809cos30 = -10.1159

The answer should be 46.7N but I don't understand how to get there. Can someone please point out where I'm going wrong?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Very early on: in ##\Delta U ##
 
BvU said:
Very early on: in ##\Delta U ##

Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
So from top to vertical (total bottom) it would be
ΔU =ΔT
mg(0.8) = 0.5mv_1^2

Then do the same analysis from bottom to the height at 30deg:
U1 = 0
U2 = mg(0.4-0.4cos30)
T1 = 0.5mv_1^2
T2 = 0.5mv_2^2
ΔU =ΔT
mg(0.4-0.4cos30) = 0.5mv_2^2 - 0.5mv_1^2

Am I thinking about this the right way?
 
Last edited:
magnesium12 said:
Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
Either that, or establish a correct height variable: your original ##\Delta U## for ##\theta=0## would come out as zero !

Then:
magnesium12 said:
The sum of forces on the string should be zero, because the pin isn't moving
is correct, though the logic looks awful. And the pin is held in place by the wall.
 
magnesium12 said:
Should I be breaking up the motion to account for the shorter string length?
No, you just need to be consistent in your choice of origin for vertical heights and which way is positive. Your U1 is the PE at A above an origin at the base of the swing, while U2 is the PE at A above an origin at the final point.
(It is usually worthwhile checking that a numeric result looks sensible. Did it not strike you as unlikely that the net fall in height was so small?)
 

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