Force with regard to 0 acceleration

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter joel amos
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Acceleration Force
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of force in relation to an object (Ball A) experiencing zero acceleration while in motion, particularly during a collision with another object (Ball B). Participants explore the implications of Newton's laws, particularly the second and third laws, in the context of constant velocity and the forces exerted during a collision.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that according to F = ma, Ball A cannot produce a force while experiencing zero acceleration.
  • Others argue that despite Ball A having zero acceleration, it can still exert a force on Ball B upon collision, referencing Newton's third law.
  • One participant notes that during the collision, Ball A's velocity changes, leading to acceleration and force application on Ball B.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of forces being positive or negative depending on the direction of motion and how this affects acceleration during the collision.
  • Some participants clarify that the concepts of acceleration and deceleration are not distinct in terms of force application, as both are considered acceleration regardless of direction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of zero acceleration and the nature of forces during a collision. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these concepts, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the apparent contradictions in the statements about force and acceleration.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of context in understanding the application of Newton's laws, particularly in distinguishing between net force, individual forces, and the effects of collisions. The discussion reveals complexities in interpreting these principles without reaching definitive conclusions.

joel amos
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Premise: Ball A is accelerated on a level, frictionless plane until it reaches a velocity of 5 m/s. Ball A travels at 0 acceleration until it collides with Ball B.

Statements:
1. According to F = ma , Ball A cannot produce a force at 0 acceleration.
2. Upon collision, Ball A applies a force on Ball B.

From what I've learned, both of the statements are true. However, they clearly contradict each other. What's the cause of my confusion?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Once the ball A hits the ball B, its velocity will change and hence it will have acceleration and therefore apply force to B.
 
joel amos said:
1. According to F = ma , Ball A cannot produce a force at 0 acceleration.
Just because a given object is not itself accelerating doesn't mean it can't exert a force on something else. If I place a book on top of a table then it isn't accelerating but it exerts a downward force on the table. Similarly let's say we have some particle A traveling with some constant velocity towards some particle B, which is also traveling at some constant velocity towards A. When A collides with B, A exerts some force on B and by Newton's 3rd law B will exert an equal and opposite force on A.
 
hokhani said:
Once the ball A hits the ball B, its velocity will change and hence it will have acceleration and therefore apply force to B.

But wouldn't the acceleration of Ball A be negative upon impact, causing the force applied to be negative. If the force is negative, wouldn't that mean that Ball B moves in the opposite direction?
 
According to the third Newton's law, it doesn't matter to say A applied force to B or vice versa.
 
joel amos said:
Statements:
1. According to F = ma , Ball A cannot produce a force at 0 acceleration.
Newton's 2nd law tells you that 0 acceleration means zero net force. During its travel at constant velocity, the net force on the ball must be zero.

2. Upon collision, Ball A applies a force on Ball B.
And Ball B applies an equal and opposite force on Ball A. Once the collision happens, it's no longer true that there is 0 net force on Ball A or that its acceleration is zero.

From what I've learned, both of the statements are true. However, they clearly contradict each other. What's the cause of my confusion?
No contradiction at all. They describe different situations.
 
joel amos said:
But wouldn't the acceleration of Ball A be negative upon impact, causing the force applied to be negative. If the force is negative, wouldn't that mean that Ball B moves in the opposite direction?
If you call the original direction of motion of Ball A the positive direction, then Ball B will exert a negative force on Ball A. Which means that Ball A will be accelerated in the negative direction (slowing it down).

And Ball A exerts a positive force on Ball B, giving Ball B a positive acceleration.
 
Doc Al said:
If you call the original direction of motion of Ball A the positive direction, then Ball B will exert a negative force on Ball A. Which means that Ball A will be accelerated in the negative direction (slowing it down).

And Ball A exerts a positive force on Ball B, giving Ball B a positive acceleration.

Thanks!
 
There really is no distinction between "acceleration" and "deceleration" from an F=ma standpoint. Negative and positive values only mean that the direction is different, but it's still "acceleration". Pressing on the gas pedal, stepping on the brake pedal, or going around the Earth in a satellite are all the same from an F=ma standpoint.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 95 ·
4
Replies
95
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K