Forced Commutation Clarrification

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operation of a circuit involving thyristors and capacitors, specifically focusing on forced commutation and the behavior of resonant oscillations. Participants seek clarification on the circuit's functionality and also explore related concepts in rectifying circuits and battery charging.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the operation of thyristor T1 and the charging of a capacitor until it reaches the source potential, followed by the discharge through thyristor T3, leading to resonant oscillation.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the resonant oscillation through T3 when it is turned on, indicating a need for further clarification.
  • A question is posed regarding the calculation of power transferred to a battery in rectifying circuits, specifically why average current is used instead of RMS current.
  • One participant explains that the chemical activity in an electrochemical cell correlates with the number of electrons, suggesting that RMS is not applicable in this context as it involves squared terms.
  • Another participant adds that power is calculated as the product of current and voltage, noting that for an ideal battery, the voltage is constant, making power proportional to current.
  • It is mentioned that RMS is relevant in heating applications due to the squared relationship in power calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the circuit operation and the application of average versus RMS current in power calculations. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the resonant oscillation or the power calculation methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference ideal components and conditions, indicating that real-world applications may differ. The discussion includes assumptions about circuit behavior and the nature of electrical power in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in circuit design, thyristor operation, and power calculations in electrical engineering may find this discussion relevant.

sandy.bridge
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Hey all,


I am merely looking for clarrification as to what happens with the circuit that I have provided an image of. Please assume all elements are ideal (for simplicity). I come here for assurance as I cannot seem to find it anywhere else. Thanks in advance!

Thyristor T1 is fired at some angle and then it begins to conduct. The capacitor begins to charge until plate A in the schematic reaches the sources potential. If thyristor T3 is then turned on at this point, it provides a path for the current to discharge through T3. The current is a resonant oscillation through T3. Once the voltage across the capacitor has become fully reversed, D2 is forward biased. Once the forward current through T1 is less than the current through D2, T1 is such off. The capacitor is then allowed to discharge through D1, and then recharge from the load. Once the capacitor attains the potential of the source, it no longer conducts a current, and all of the current as an entirety remains in the free-wheeling diode.

Thanks again for any clarrifications.
 

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No one can verify if my perception of this circuit is skewed?
 
sandy.bridge said:
Thyristor T1 is fired at some angle and then it begins to conduct. The capacitor begins to charge until plate A in the schematic reaches the sources potential. If thyristor T3 is then turned on at this point, it provides a path for the current to discharge through T3. The current is a resonant oscillation through T3. Once the voltage across the capacitor has become fully reversed, D2 is forward biased. Once the forward current through T1 is less than the current through D2, T1 is such off. The capacitor is then allowed to discharge through D1, and then recharge from the load. Once the capacitor attains the potential of the source, it no longer conducts a current, and all of the current as an entirety remains in the free-wheeling diode.

Thanks again for any clarrifications.
It sounds feasible. Component values and timing of the thyristor switching will be important.
 
Much appreciated! I was a little unsure about the resonant oscillation passing through T3 when it was turned on.


EDIT:

Perhaps I could have another questioned answered concerning the charging of a battery in rectifying circuits. If there is a resistor and inductor in series with a battery to he charged, why is the power transferred to the battery calculated with the average current through it, rather than the rms?
 
Last edited:
sandy.bridge said:
Perhaps I could have another questioned answered concerning the charging of a battery in rectifying circuits. If there is a resistor and inductor in series with a battery to he charged, why is the power transferred to the battery calculated with the average current through it, rather than the rms?
The chemical activity going on in an electrochemical cell is proportional to the number of electrons entering the cell.

Nowhere in that statement can you divine a term (number of electrons)2.

RMS involves something squared, and there is nothing squared in the reactions that account for the recharging in the cell.

The squared term is evident in heating by a current, power = I2.R
so that's why RMS is involved in heating applications of electricity.
 
sandy.bridge said:
Much appreciated! I was a little unsure about the resonant oscillation passing through T3 when it was turned on.


EDIT:

Perhaps I could have another questioned answered concerning the charging of a battery in rectifying circuits. If there is a resistor and inductor in series with a battery to he charged, why is the power transferred to the battery calculated with the average current through it, rather than the rms?
The Power is the Current times the Volts. The Volts are constant (ideal battery) so the Power constant and is proportional to the Current.
I2R is another way of calculating Power dissipated in a resistor but that's when both current and resistance are varying (AC) - a different situation. The RMS value of current represents the equivalent (DC) current that would be flowing which would dissipate the same mean power.

The RMS value of an unvarying current is also the same as the DC value.
 

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