Formal definition of the Equivalence Principle(s)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lalbatros
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Definition Equivalence
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the formal definitions of the various forms of the Equivalence Principle (EP) and seeks clarity on how these definitions can be used to evaluate theories in relation to the principle. The scope includes theoretical considerations and the implications of these definitions in the context of General Relativity (GR).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire for formal definitions of the Equivalence Principles that could clarify discussions and provide conditions under which theories satisfy these principles.
  • The same participant suggests that a formal definition could help avoid misunderstandings regarding contradictions between the EP and GR.
  • Another participant provides a reference to a paper that discusses the relationship between General Relativity and experimental evidence, although it is noted that it does not contain a formal definition.
  • A later reply indicates that the referenced material, while interesting, lacks the precise formal definitions sought by the original poster.
  • One participant summarizes the equivalence principle by stating that gravity can be perceived as the absence of force in a freely falling frame, equating it to an inertial reference frame.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the existence of formal definitions for the Equivalence Principles, and multiple viewpoints regarding the clarity and sufficiency of existing resources are expressed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for definitions that are more precise than casual language, suggesting that existing explanations may not adequately address the nuances of the various forms of the Equivalence Principle.

lalbatros
Messages
1,247
Reaction score
2
Considering how the various forms of equivalence principle can lead to ambiguous discussions, I would like to know if more formal definitions for the various forms of the Equivalence Principles are available.

I would consider as "formal" all definitions that could be used (formally) to check if a theory satisfies this principle and eventually under which conditions it does.

For example, to avoid useless discussions about alleged contradictions between the EP and GR, a formal definition would make a formal and general proof crystal clear. I would also be interrested to see such a formal proof, although I consider it is rather obvious (WEP + sufficient smoothness of the equations).

Thanks for your help,

Michel
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
One might start here:
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2006-3&page=articlesu1.html
"The Confrontation between General Relativity and Experiment"
by Clifford M. Will
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Robphy, this is a very interresting reference.
I also just received a book by the same author on the same subject.
A little more difficult to read.

However, there is no formal definition to be found there.

What I am looking for is not necessarily a big and complicated mathematical formulation.
It could be just a little bit more precise than casual english.
Some statement about trajectories or physical variables in the context of the various forms of EP.

Michel
 
The equivalence principle states that what we normally think of as the force of gravity is actually the absence of force: a freely falling observer does not feel his own weight, a freefalling frame is equivalent to an inertial reference frame, flat spacetime.
 

Similar threads

Replies
29
Views
4K
  • · Replies 137 ·
5
Replies
137
Views
16K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 335 ·
12
Replies
335
Views
41K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K