Formula for acceleration between to object.

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    Acceleration Formula
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the formula for acceleration between two objects of mass, specifically in the context of gravitational interaction. Participants explore the implications of this formula in relation to Galileo's free fall law, examining the conditions under which it holds true and the assumptions involved in deriving the formula.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of a derived formula for acceleration, suggesting it contradicts Galileo's free fall law.
  • Another participant supports the formula by referencing the concept of reduced mass.
  • Some participants argue that the acceleration depends on the mass of the objects involved, citing examples from their education.
  • A participant provides a detailed derivation of the gravitational forces and accelerations acting on the two masses, noting the importance of the center of mass frame.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of using different frames of reference, with some arguing that the choice of frame does not affect the results while others contend that it does.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about the correctness of Galileo's conjecture, with conflicting views on whether it holds true in all cases.
  • One participant emphasizes that the universal free fall law (UFF) remains valid regardless of mass differences, provided the center of mass is used as the frame of reference.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of Newton's laws in non-inertial frames, with some insisting that only inertial frames should be used for such discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the derived formula in relation to Galileo's free fall law. Multiple competing views remain regarding the correctness of Galileo's conjecture and the implications of different frames of reference.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about the nature of gravitational interactions, the role of mass in acceleration, and the choice of reference frames. There are unresolved mathematical steps and differing interpretations of classical mechanics principles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of physics, particularly those exploring gravitational dynamics, classical mechanics, and the implications of different reference frames in physics.

  • #31
TurtleMeister said:
I don't follow that. I was assuming that your scenario was for three objects, the earth, and two objects in Earth free fall. If that is the case then you need to include all three objects in the same frame. If that is not the case then can you be more specific about what your scenario is?

no, the scenario has been changed, sorry for not mentioning.

manishr said:
what i meant by that is,
let say there is another inertial frame f (beside the CoM, which is now an inertial frame).
if both objects are accelerating in same direction with respect to f,
=> there is an acceleration between CoM and f.
=> CoM cannot be inertial frame (now). because we have assumed that f is an inertial frame. so one of them has to non inertial, CoM is non inertial.

there is only two object in the space.
 
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  • #32
ManishR said:
i have no idea what you just said.

however

if there is only two point mass objects ma & mb with \vec{r_{0}} where \hat{r_{0}} is from ma to mb.

\frac{d^{2}}{dt^{2}}\vec{r_{a}}=-\left(\frac{m_{b}}{m_{a}+m_{b}}\right)\frac{d^{2}}{dt^{2}}\vec{r_{0}}

where \vec{r_{a}} is vector position of ma from an inertial frame.
Yes... And that tells you that you cannot solve the problem from accelerated frame how? Your dra/dt will be completely different, but dr/dt will be exactly the same, since it is frame-invariant.
 
  • #33
K^2 said:
And that tells you that you cannot solve the problem from accelerated frame how?

i have never said you cannot solve problem from accelerated frame.
what i said is,

a_a = \frac{d^2r_a}{dt^2} = -\frac{F_a}{m_a} = -G\frac{m_b}{(r_a + r_b)^2}

the step need correction if you use non inertial frame.
 
  • #34
Ah, of course. Acceleration of a body depends on acceleration of the reference frame. But we know how to correct for that, so we can still work from accelerated reference frame.
 

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