Four Coplanar Points: Solving for Unknown X

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Safy91
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Points
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the conditions for four points to be coplanar, specifically focusing on how to find the unknown x-coordinate of one of the points. Participants explore various mathematical approaches and concepts related to vectors, cross products, and equations of planes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using vectors and the cross product to show coplanarity for three known points, but expresses uncertainty about incorporating the fourth point with an unknown x-coordinate.
  • Another participant proposes showing that the three definite points are coplanar and then using the fourth point with two others to determine the unknown, but quickly dismisses this idea.
  • A different approach is suggested where one point is used as the origin to find a value for the unknown that would ensure the cross product of the remaining three points is zero, though this is also later questioned.
  • One participant considers deriving an equation for the plane formed by the first three points and finding a value for the unknown that ensures the fourth point lies on that plane, but expresses uncertainty about representing the plane in Cartesian form.
  • Another participant mentions finding the volume of the tetrahedron defined by the four points, noting that if they are coplanar, the volume would be zero, and suggests using either a triple product or a 4x4 determinant for this calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to determine coplanarity or the value of the unknown x-coordinate. Multiple competing views and methods are presented, but no definitive solution is agreed upon.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mathematical steps involved, particularly in representing the plane and the implications of using different vector operations. There are also unresolved questions about the conditions required for coplanarity.

Safy91
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
So I have 4 points, one of them has an unknown x co-ordinate. How would I show that they are coplanar? With 3 points I could just turn them into vectors, work out the cross product and conclude they lie in the same plane if the answer is 0, right? But the 4th point and the unknown is throwing me. Any hints?

Edit: Well, I need to eventually work out what value of the unknown x would satisfy, um, co-planarity (you know what I mean).
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Would it be possible to show that the 3 definite points are co-planar, and then use the 4th along with 2 others to work out what the unknown would have to be?

Edit: No, that wouldn't work. :(
 
Ok how about using one point as the origin, and then finding a value for the unknown that would ensure the cross product of the remaining three is 0?

Umpteenth edit: Er, I don't think that would work either.
 
Ok, maybe I need some sort of equation for the plane of the first three points, and then just need to find a value that shows the 4th point lies on the plane (I assume it would be 0 distance away). I'm not sure how to represent the plane in cartesian form.
 
Safy91 said:
Ok how about using one point as the origin, and then finding a value for the unknown that would ensure the cross product of the remaining three is 0?

Umpteenth edit: Er, I don't think that would work either.
Um, that should have been triple product, not cross. I guess this is probably worth a shot.

Talking to yourself can be helpful, it seems.
 
Find the volume of the tetrahedron defined by the four points. If they are coplanar the volume is 0.

You can do that either by finding a triple product, or evaluating a 4x4 determinant.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K