Four-vector from 3 space components?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the spatial components of a geometrical object and its time component in the context of four-vectors in relativistic physics. Participants explore how to define the time component based on given spatial components and the implications of Lorentz transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to determine the time component of a geometrical object defined by three spatial components, given certain differential relationships.
  • Another participant suggests defining the four-vector by specifying the three spatial components in a frame where the time component is zero, followed by a Lorentz transformation to any arbitrary frame.
  • A different participant describes a method involving a spatial grid and synchronized clocks to establish time coordinates, although the effectiveness of this method is contingent on certain conditions being met.
  • A later reply reiterates the suggestion of defining the four-vector in a specific frame and provides a mathematical expression for the time component based on transformations, indicating uncertainty about the time component's value.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to approach the definition of the time component, with no consensus reached on a definitive method or outcome.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the synchronization of clocks and the conditions under which Lorentz transformations apply are not fully explored, leaving open questions about the validity of the proposed methods.

jason12345
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If in some frame I define a geometrical object as having 3 space components, how do I then find the time component component it must have?

I've defined a geometrical object in some frame as having components Ax, Ay, Az defined by:

d/dx Ax = Fx, d/dx Ay = Fy, d/dy Ay = Fy

I require that for any frame:

1/gamma d/dx'A'x' = Fx, d/dy' A'y' = Fy, d/dy' A'y' = Fy

Is it possible to define the form the time component A0 takes?

Thanks.
 
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Can't you just define your four-vector by specifying your three components in the frame in which the time component is zero, and then Lorentz transform to an arbitrary frame?
 
If you've mapped out a space grid with rulers, the usual approach is to put a bunch of clocks on that grid, synchronize them via the Einstein convention (assuming that this is possible, which requires the frame not be rotating), and then use the proper time read by each clock to determine the time coordinates of events.

I hope this answers your question?
 
Fredrik said:
Can't you just define your four-vector by specifying your three components in the frame in which the time component is zero, and then Lorentz transform to an arbitrary frame?

I don't know what the time component is at all, so I can't say if it's zero or not, but you have given me an idea. I have (A0, A1, A2, A3), with A1' transforming as:

A1' = gamma (A1 - V A0)

Setting A1 = 0 for a suitable x,t gives:

A0 = - A1'/(gamma V) -- (1)

Cheers!
 

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