Fourier coefficients of cos(4πt)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Fourier coefficients of the continuous time signal x(t) = cos(4πt), which has a fundamental period of T = 1/2. Participants are examining the integration process involved in calculating the coefficients and comparing their results with those stated in the textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the integration process for calculating the Fourier coefficients, noting complications and indeterminate forms. There is exploration of different methods, including the use of Euler's formula and the implications of using trigonometric expansions versus exponential forms.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the integration challenges, particularly for n = 1, and have suggested alternative approaches. There is recognition of the potential for different interpretations of the problem, especially regarding the expected method of solution. However, no explicit consensus has been reached on the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are operating under constraints set by the professor, who prefers the use of exponential forms over trigonometric expansions. This has led to discussions about the appropriateness of different methods for solving the problem.

Jncik
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Homework Statement


suppose that we have the continuous time signal

x(t) = cos(4πt) with fundamental period of T=1/2

Homework Equations



[tex]a_{k} = \frac{1}{T} \int_{T}{}x(t)e^{-j\omega_{0}kt}dt[/tex]

where [tex]\omega_{0}[/tex] is obviously [tex]\frac{2\pi}{1/2} = 4\pi[/tex]

well the problem is that this integration becomes

[tex] a_{k} = \frac{1}{T} \int_{T}{}x(t)e^{-j\omega_{0}kt}dt =<br /> 2\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{2}}cos(4 \pi t)e^{-j4 \pi kt}dt=<br /> ...=0[/tex]

I find as a result 0, the calculation is complicated but using wolfram alpha's calculator I have the same result

here is the picture

[PLAIN]http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6729/36554157.gif

as you can see

we have

[tex]1 - e^{-2\pi j k} = 1 - ( cos(2\pi k) - jsin(2\pi k)) = 1 - 1 = 0[/tex]

hence it must be 0
now my book says the following

The nonzero FS coefficients of x(t) are [tex]a_{1} = a_{-1} = 1/2[/tex]

but I have 0 as a result, and if I plug 1 or -1 I will get 0 again, what's wrong here?

thanks in advance
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Hi Jncik! :smile:

πj212 + π = πj2(-1)2 + π = 0 :wink:
 
thanks tiny-tim, I didn't notice that :)
 
And the numerator is 0 also, giving an indeterminate form. You can best see the problem if you calculate the sine/cosine coefficients. You will see that the integrals for an and bn have a different form when n = 1, requiring a separate and easier integration. If you work out the complicated formulas for other n and plug n = 1 in those answers, you will get the same of indeterminate answer.
 
LCKurtz said:
And the numerator is 0 also, giving an indeterminate form. You can best see the problem if you calculate the sine/cosine coefficients. You will see that the integrals for an and bn have a different form when n = 1, requiring a separate and easier integration. If you work out the complicated formulas for other n and plug n = 1 in those answers, you will get the same of indeterminate answer.

thanks what I did for n = 1 first I tried to find out the result using the integration but I used these two formulas

[tex]2\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{2}}cos(4 \pi t)e^{-4 \pi t} dt = 2\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{2}}cos(4 \pi t)cos(4 \pi t) dt - 2j\int_{0}^{\frac{1}{2}}cos(4 \pi t)sin(4 \pi t) dt = ...[/tex]

because as you said it wouldn't work using just the integration without expanding the form of [tex]e^{-j 4 \pi t}[/tex]

sadly our professor doesn't want the trigonometric expansion but prefers the series with the e^...

after solving this I thought it would be better if I just used Euler's formula about the cos(4πt)

it is known that

[tex]cos(4\pi t) = \frac{e^{j 4 \pi t} + e^{-j 4 \pi t}}{2}[/tex]

hence the coefficients are [tex]a_{1} = a_{-1} = \frac{1}{2}[/tex]

but I am not sure if this was what the exercise wanted cause this solution takes less than 5 seconds to finish
 
Jncik said:
… but I am not sure if this was what the exercise wanted cause this solution takes less than 5 seconds to finish

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

ruined your day, did it? :rolleyes:
 
tiny-tim said:
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

ruined your day, did it? :rolleyes:

haha yes :p :smile:
 
Jncik said:
after solving this I thought it would be better if I just used Euler's formula about the cos(4πt)(

it is known that

[tex]cos(4\pi t) = \frac{e^{j 4 \pi t} + e^{-j 4 \pi t}}{2}[/tex]

hence the coefficients are [tex]a_{1} = a_{-1} = \frac{1}{2}[/tex]

but I am not sure if this was what the exercise wanted cause this solution takes less than 5 seconds to finish


On a quiz I would expect that is exactly what the professor wanted. The point being for the student to recognize that trig functions like that are their own (finite) Fourier Series.
 

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