News Fox News: Fair & Balanced? Investigating Claims of Corruption

[Al68]

Surely you aren't suggesting it is in the interests for the working poor to continue struggling by on with same minimum wage while inflation continues to increase? But if not that, then what?

I'll look at the more appropriate thread.

 

[Count Iblis]

http://news.google.com/news/story?p...en&topic=w&ncl=d-zAxdBGnJfL-kMQWXcNqrn5TvSDM"

 

[Choronzon]

http://news.google.com/news/story?p...en&topic=w&ncl=d-zAxdBGnJfL-kMQWXcNqrn5TvSDM"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,556381,00.html?test=latestnews"

It's right on their webpage. Didn't even have to search or scroll down.

 

[Hepth]

theres just something about the way they report the news. For example the Polanski stuff going on right now :
http://www.cnn.com/

Cnn has "Tumultuous Polanski always in spotlight" and a picture of him.

http://www.foxnews.com/index.html

FoxNews has "THE POLANSKI AFFAIR : ANATOMY OF A SEX SCANDAL"

It just always takes an approach that seems less like "news" and more like "tabloid". Its their approach that I find unappealing in most high-profile news breaks.


Under world:
CNN :
Iran fires long-range missile in latest test -"Iran test fired a long-range Shahab-3 missile on Monday, state-run Press TV reports. This follows tests on Sunday of a missile-launching system and several types of short- and medium-range missiles, Press TV says"

FOX :
Iran Defying the West -"Iran carries out its longest-range missile test, with weapons that could strike Israel "

Under Tech:
CNN:
Can tech personalities break into politics? -"Hollywood stars, basketball players and wrestlers have made it into politics, so why not a tech personality? "

FOX:
The Rise of Sex Robots and Pleasure Machines - "Robots may take over the world, but the invasion will be pleasurable, say scientists"


Everything FOX seems to report on comes along with an opinion or specific way of viewing the news, or some way of making the story more sensational.



( I didn't SEARCH for these, they were just what was the leading story on the respective pages.)

 

[Choronzon]

theres just something about the way they report the news. For example the Polanski stuff going on right now :
http://www.cnn.com/

Cnn has "Tumultuous Polanski always in spotlight" and a picture of him.

http://www.foxnews.com/index.html

FoxNews has "THE POLANSKI AFFAIR : ANATOMY OF A SEX SCANDAL"

It just always takes an approach that seems less like "news" and more like "tabloid". Its their approach that I find unappealing in most high-profile news breaks.

Except that the guy was arrested because he drugged, raped, and sodomized a 13 year old girl. I honestly can't take any of his defenders at all seriously, and he should be extradited and sentenced to a lengthy prison sentence. As far as I'm concerned, the Fox News headline is closer to the truth, and I'm not all interested in CNN's story about how "unhappy" Polanski was and that the child was "sullen" and "could have been up to 25."

So one person comes here and accuses fox of not reporting what's going on in the Honduras seemingly with doing no more fact checking than a single google news search, and another ridicules them for using the word "sex" in the headline of a story about a rapist.

I'll stick with Fox News, thank you. At least I heard about the Acorn scandal as it broke, not days later in response to congressional action.

 

[seycyrus]

theres just something about the way they report the news. For

Funny how you ommitted "US News"

i.e.

Fox US News: Report, Accomplices in NYC Terror Plot

CNN US News: Attorney 101, God left me here for a reason.

The content of the websites is dynamic. It is easy enough to pick and choose the headlines you want to highlight to prove your point.

 

[Count Iblis]

I stand corrected on Honduras, but Polanski was awaiting sentencing for consensual sex with a 13 year old, not for rape. This is called "statutory rape" in the US. Now, in France the age of consent was 12 at the time, so it isn't (or wasn't) even a crime in France.

We could just as well start to arrest people who violated Iranian sharia law and extradite them to Iran. It is one thing to have extremist laws, it is another thing to expect decent countries to extradite people who violated such laws. This is what the outrage in Europe is about.

Although the age of consent has gone up in European countries since the 1970s, you do not get long prison sentences for merely having sex with a minor.

 

[Hepth]

Ah, you misunderstand me. I didn't omit US News, I was looking for articles to compare on similar headlines to show the way they approach the news differs greatly.

So I looked at the MAIN headline, saw ones about the same topic, and repeated them.

Choronzon:
You missed the point too, I'm not even delving into the topic itself, and I can't believe you took from what I posted that I somehow am defending Polanski... I hope you're intentionally ignoring my observation due to Fox's defense, because I feel that its fairly blatant how Fox tries to make the way they report their news more flashy than most other news outlets. (This is my general opinion, and I TRY to give everyone a fair chance.)

Whether they report more of the truth than others I'm not bringing into discussion, but rather their approach at obtaining readers. They really take a drastic approach to everything, and I'm sure its because flash sells to the general population. But myself, I would prefer plain text with the facts of whatever situation occurred in the title and intro.

As for the acorn "scandal", I won't defend them other than I'm sure you could do this to ANY large corporation/government/etc and you'll get a couple of people who will be captured with the intent of violating the law. But you cannot draw the conclusion that the whole organization is somehow culprit... That's a drastic bias, but seems to be what Fox has been trying to push.

Then there's the whole point that these films were made illegally, and cannot be used in court. This is what they call entrapment, and you're not allowed to film conversations in Maryland without consent of the parties. Its a CRIME.

The filmmakers try to rationalize taking someones rights away in an effort to convince them to do something illegal is OK, because you're doing something illegal to get someone to do something MORE illegal...

the whole thing is dumb imo.

 

[Choronzon]

Ah, you misunderstand me. I didn't omit US News, I was looking for articles to compare on similar headlines to show the way they approach the news differs greatly.

So I looked at the MAIN headline, saw ones about the same topic, and repeated them.

Choronzon:
You missed the point too, I'm not even delving into the topic itself, and I can't believe you took from what I posted that I somehow am defending Polanski... I hope you're intentionally ignoring my observation due to Fox's defense, because I feel that its fairly blatant how Fox tries to make the way they report their news more flashy than most other news outlets. (This is my general opinion, and I TRY to give everyone a fair chance.)

Whether they report more of the truth than others I'm not bringing into discussion, but rather their approach at obtaining readers. They really take a drastic approach to everything, and I'm sure its because flash sells to the general population. But myself, I would prefer plain text with the facts of whatever situation occurred in the title and intro.

As for the acorn "scandal", I won't defend them other than I'm sure you could do this to ANY large corporation/government/etc and you'll get a couple of people who will be captured with the intent of violating the law. But you cannot draw the conclusion that the whole organization is somehow culprit... That's a drastic bias, but seems to be what Fox has been trying to push.

Then there's the whole point that these films were made illegally, and cannot be used in court. This is what they call entrapment, and you're not allowed to film conversations in Maryland without consent of the parties. Its a CRIME.

The filmmakers try to rationalize taking someones rights away in an effort to convince them to do something illegal is OK, because you're doing something illegal to get someone to do something MORE illegal...

the whole thing is dumb imo.

As for Fox News being "flashy", I'll concede your point as soon as they turn on a hologram generator.

One of the Acorn tapes was possibly illegal, all the rest were perfectly legit. The organization has a responsibility to the taxpayers, and they have abused it time and time again.

But to get back to the topic, it's entirely your choice if you want to read plain text, but that is nothing more than a preference. I personally prefer Fox's attractive female anchors, it's confrontational style, and the fact that Fox news anchors don't all wet themselves at the very idea of being within five feet of President Obama.

 

[Hepth]

As for Fox News being "flashy", I'll concede your point as soon as they turn on a hologram generator.

Hahaha, touché! I was quite embarrassed about that...

 

[mheslep]

...Polanski was awaiting sentencing for consensual sex with a 13 year old, not for rape...

You are asserting it can be consensual?

 

[Count Iblis]

You are asserting it can be consensual?

Of course! Children older than about ten can have sexual feelings. We have laws banning sex with children to protect children. But this is a very difficult issue. I think in the US you had a case where a teacher had consensual sex with a 12 year of boy. The teacher got pregnant and was sentenced to ten years in jail. After the teacher left jail they got married.

The whole idea that you can make a law that defines what is consensual or not is, i.m.o. ridiculous. Compare with Sharia law that doesn't regard sex outside marriage to be consensual.

 

[lisab]

I stand corrected on Honduras, but Polanski was awaiting sentencing for consensual sex with a 13 year old, not for rape. This is called "statutory rape" in the US. Now, in France the age of consent was 12 at the time, so it isn't (or wasn't) even a crime in France.

We could just as well start to arrest people who violated Iranian sharia law and extradite them to Iran. It is one thing to have extremist laws, it is another thing to expect decent countries to extradite people who violated such laws. This is what the outrage in Europe is about.

Although the age of consent has gone up in European countries since the 1970s, you do not get long prison sentences for merely having sex with a minor.

It doesn't matter what was the law was there, he was here. No matter what country you go to, you had better follow their laws or face the consequences.

Consensual? He drugged her. He admitted to drugging her for the purpose of having sex with her. That is NOT consensual...even if the victim were a grown woman, it would be rape.

 

[mheslep]

Of course! Children older than about ten can have sexual feelings. We have laws banning sex with children to protect children. But this is a very difficult issue.

No its not.

I think in the US you had a case where a teacher had consensual sex with a 12 year of boy.

You say it was consensual. I say, and the courts said, that she raped the boy.

The teacher got pregnant and was sentenced to ten years in jail. After the teacher left jail they got married.

How cute. And Charles Manson had a half dozen 'wives' who would do anything for him.

The whole idea that you can make a law that defines what is consensual or not is, i.m.o. ridiculous. Compare with Sharia law that doesn't regard sex outside marriage to be consensual.

We're not talking about a some ambiguous broad definition, or Sharia law. We're talking about the case of children only, and they do not have the ability to consent.

 

[seycyrus]

Ah, you misunderstand me. I didn't omit US News, I was looking for articles to compare on similar headlines to show the way they approach the news differs greatly.

So I looked at the MAIN headline, saw ones about the same topic, and repeated them.

And I maintain that I think you cherry picked your headlines.

EDIT: Actually, I think you straight out lied. The tech topics are *not* the same simply with a different *spin*.

You went to the pages that supported your view, threw those down, and ignored the others.

 

[Count Iblis]

We're talking about the case of children only, and they do not have the ability to consent

They can have the ability to consent, it is simply that in different lawmakers have different laws in order to protect children. The law assumes that children below a certain age cannot consent, regardless of whether that is true or not from a scientific point of view.

The problem here is that rare cases in which the child obviously did consent cannot be treated different from a case in which a child was raped. Add to that the fact that in the US you have minimum mandatory sentences and get a "Sharia Law"-type problem.

 

[lisab]

They can have the ability to consent, it is simply that in different lawmakers have different laws in order to protect children. The law assumes that children below a certain age cannot consent, regardless of whether that is true or not from a scientific point of view.

The problem here is that rare cases in which the child obviously did consent cannot be treated different from a case in which a child was raped. Add to that the fact that in the US you have minimum mandatory sentences and get a "Sharia Law"-type problem.

Complete nonsense. Consent is determined by law; if the law says a person under a certain age can not consent, then they can't. No gray area, period.

You say there are cases where the child "obviously did consent"...that's complete make-believe. Children under the age of consent, can't consent.

Before you go thinking Polanski is a dang saint, read http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0610081polanski1.html" (warning - it's graphic).

 

[Count Iblis]

It doesn't matter what was the law was there, he was here. No matter what country you go to, you had better follow their laws or face the consequences.

Consensual? He drugged her. He admitted to drugging her for the purpose of having sex with her. That is NOT consensual...even if the victim were a grown woman, it would be rape.

That admission was part of a "plea bargain" which is a competely alien concept in most European countries. We would consider that a form of coercion. Also, the judge in this case had some contacts with the DA which was inappropriate, also according to US standards.

Now if you escape from a country in which you would face unfair punishment according to the legal norms of your country, then you won't be extradited. The law in the country you fled from does not matter. We give people asylum who escape from countries like China, Iran etc. But in rare cases, you can imagine facing unjust prosecution in the US.

 

[lisab]

That admission was part of a "plea bargain" which is a competely alien concept in most European countries. We would consider that a form of coercion. Also, the judge in this case had some contacts with the DA which was inappropriate, also according to US standards.

Now if you escape from a country in which you would face unfair punishment according to the legal norms of your country, then you won't be extradited. The law in the country you fled from does not matter. We give people asylum who escape from countries like China, Iran etc. But in rare cases, you can imagine facing unjust prosecution in the US.

Well, as long you don't drug and sodomize children here in the States, you won't face the type of legal problems Polanski faces.

 

[Count Iblis]

Complete nonsense. Consent is determined by law; if the law says a person under a certain age can not consent, then they can't. No gray area, period.

You say there are cases where the child "obviously did consent"...that's complete make-believe. Children under the age of consent, can't consent.

Before you go thinking Polanski is a dang saint, read http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0610081polanski1.html" (warning - it's graphic).

That's legal fundamentalism. E.g. the Taliban Law says that before marriage you can't consent to having sex. Now, I'm not saying that grown ups should have sex with children, just that fundamentalism is a bad thing and we don't need it in the West.

About Polanski, he could have faced charges in France, but the US insisted that he be extradited to the US.

 

[Jasongreat]

Complete nonsense.

Consent is determined by law; if the law says a person under a certain age can not consent, then they can't. No gray area, period.

There is a gray area as far as being old enough to consent is concerned, if a person is under 16 they are considered unable to consent as an adult but if they do something bad enough they are all of a sudden considered adults and are punished as such. So it seems to me they are not old enough to make "adult" decisions, but if they do make an "adult" decision they become an adult in the eyes of the law. If they are too young to decide for themselves they are too young to decide for themselves IMO. No more trying 10 yr olds as adults, no matter what they do.

You say there are cases where the child "obviously did consent"...that's complete make-believe. Children under the age of consent, can't consent.

I agree completely.

 

[Choronzon]

That's legal fundamentalism. E.g. the Taliban Law says that before marriage you can't consent to having sex. Now, I'm not saying that grown ups should have sex with children, just that fundamentalism is a bad thing and we don't need it in the West.

About Polanski, he could have faced charges in France, but the US insisted that he be extradited to the US.

Your defense of Polanski hasn't addressed the issue that instead of sweet-talking the 13 year old girl into sleeping with him, he drugged her. That means rape here in the U.S., not statutory rape.

Honestly, I'm baffled and sickened by all the people defending this criminal, and France should be ashamed for providing asylum for a rapist for no better reason than he makes movies people like.

 

[Count Iblis]

But how come Polanski faced sentencing on statutory rape charges in the US if in fact he raped that girl?

 

[Choronzon]

But how come Polanski faced sentencing on statutory rape charges in the US if in fact he raped that girl?

From wiki:

Polanski was initially charged[38] with rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance (methaqualone) to a minor. These charges were dismissed under the terms of his plea bargain, and he pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of engaging in unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.[39]


I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if it is possible, but his plea should be invalidated and he should be tried for the original charges.

 

[lisab]

But how come Polanski faced sentencing on statutory rape charges in the US if in fact he raped that girl?

I'm no expert on the law, but I don't think he's facing that charge anymore. That charge was a result of plea bargaining, which means a perpetrator agrees to plead guilty to a lesser crime. It allows the perpetrator to serve a less severe sentence, and it saves the state a costly trial.

But when he skipped the country, he reneged on the plea agreement and it's no longer offered.

Count, did you read the victim's account of the ordeal? It may give you a different view of the guy...regardless of how good his movies are.

 

[mheslep]

That admission was part of a "plea bargain" which is a competely alien concept in most European countries. We would consider that a form of coercion.

Who is we? By alien, you must mean a Europe on some distant planet. The Europe on this planet, outside of Scandinavia, has had plea bargains for some decades now at least. Galileo's http://www.truthinjustice.org/bargaining.htm" agreement to shutter himself in his house also comes to mind. All of the English common law countries (US, England, Canada) have had such for much longer.http://law.jrank.org/pages/1285/Guilty-Plea-Plea-Bargaining-comparative-perspective.html"
http://www.mwe.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/publications.htdetail/object_id/0c283fb6-94bd-4f5d-bbda-74a7e4213195.cfm"
http://www.encore.nl/pleabargaining.htm"

 

[WhoWee]

Of course! Children older than about ten can have sexual feelings. We have laws banning sex with children to protect children. But this is a very difficult issue. I think in the US you had a case where a teacher had consensual sex with a 12 year of boy. The teacher got pregnant and was sentenced to ten years in jail. After the teacher left jail they got married.

The whole idea that you can make a law that defines what is consensual or not is, i.m.o. ridiculous. Compare with Sharia law that doesn't regard sex outside marriage to be consensual.

Consensual, meaning we both agree to the act - right?

Given this definition, castration of someone attempting "consensual sex" with my 10 year old would also qualify - and given the alternative choices I would offer.

 

[Hepth]

And I maintain that I think you cherry picked your headlines.

EDIT: Actually, I think you straight out lied. The tech topics are *not* the same simply with a different *spin*.

You went to the pages that supported your view, threw those down, and ignored the others.

No no, I didn't. I went to ones that had corresponding stories. After that I put up the tech one (who would have corresponding stories in tech anyway?) (I edited it after adding the first one).

If you want me to admit that the US one was a normal story, ok. It was. And CNN didn't have the same headline. I wasn't cherrypicking, I was providing evidence of why I have an opinion about something. I'm sorry I said "everything" that was an exaggeration. I mean "most of what I happen across".

I guess its a different way of looking at I. I say, the main page, World, US, and Tech are my most read/seen topics. 3 of those 4 had attributes that immediately turn me away from Fox. That is my point. Before even getting to the content, I had an urge to walk away from the site. I felt that their approach of making news more sensational only serves for me to distrust their motives. And before you get upset, I feel the SAME WAY about CNN/MSNBC/Etc when they do it as well. I'm not denying that. I just NOTICE that the frequency I run into that turn-off at fox is high, and I don't think its an inherent bias because of political views.
Actually, I'll freely admit that it may NOT be to an unusual number of stories that are ridiculous (i.e. "Man Who Stole, Ate Hot Dog Gets 18 Months in Jail ","Pa. Man Arrested for Allegedly Wrapping Cat in Duct Tape", taken from their current US section. ) Because CNN has some crazies too ("Four-legged Colbert wins dog photo contest", "10 secret menu items at fast food restaurants"). Things that I read and ask "Why is this called news, and who could possibly care about this."

But maybe its rather the imagery and wording they like to use sometimes. I.E. :

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/nato2_20090928_195639.jpg
(Main Page right now)

It seems every time its a new main picture it has some huge bold print overlayed on some image. Itjust feels so unnecessary and unprofessional, doesn't it?

I'm trying not to bash them, really. I just hope you can see my point of view. I'm sure (I really hope) that there are other readers out there that are turned off from sensational news like I am. Or maybe I'm alone.

 

[Choronzon]

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/nato2_20090928_195639.jpg
(Main Page right now)

It seems every time its a new main picture it has some huge bold print overlayed on some image. Itjust feels so unnecessary and unprofessional, doesn't it?

I'm trying not to bash them, really. I just hope you can see my point of view. I'm sure (I really hope) that there are other readers out there that are turned off from sensational news like I am. Or maybe I'm alone.

I admit I'm not a fan of the image you've linked. My own barely educated guess is that some people don't like Fox's obvious red-white-and-blue color scheme, sort of like they're wrapping themselves in the American Flag. CNN and MSNBC have just as predominant graphic schemes, but they seem to be in less in-your-face colors.

I don't think you're alone, though I just disagree with some of your opinions. I think CNN is NPR with holograms, and MSNBC is a socialist orgy. Keith Olbermann actually makes me cringe every time I see him. For Awhile, he and O'Reilly seemed to have this war going on between them, where O'Reilly named him a "pinhead" every couple of weeks, and he would call O'Reilly "the worst person in the world" every day for six months or so.

When I want to find out what is happening, I read, since I read faster than news anchors talk. I'll read a variety of news sources. If I want to watch a discussion on current events or politics, it's straight to Fox News for me, partly because they pull less punches, but mostly because they often have a lovely lady strategically placed to grace my television with a great pair of legs.

 

[seycyrus]

No no, I didn't. I went to ones that had corresponding stories.

From your post...

( I didn't SEARCH for these, they were just what was the leading story on the respective pages.)

I think its ridiculous that your personal bias is leading you to twist your own words in such a manner.