Free Modules: Solving Issue of Finite Generation Corollary 2.2.4

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Corollary 2.2.4 from Paul E. Bland's book "Rings and Their Modules," specifically regarding the implications of the generation of free modules and the conditions under which elements can be expressed as sums of a certain form. Participants explore the nuances of module generation and the relationships between submodules.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions whether the condition $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ necessarily implies that $$\sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F$$, expressing uncertainty about the existence of an element $$x \in F$$ for every such $$(a_\alpha)$$.
  • Peter elaborates on his confusion regarding the generation of a module or submodule by a set $$S$$, particularly in the context of submodules $$L$$ and $$N$$.
  • Another participant suggests that Peter's hypothesis leads to the conclusion that $$L=N$$, indicating that the submodule generated by $$S$$ cannot be larger than $$N$$.
  • Clarifications are provided about the definition of the submodule generated by a subset and its implications for the relationship between $$L$$ and $$N$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the generation of modules, with some agreeing on the relationship between $$L$$ and $$N$$ while others remain uncertain about the conditions under which elements can be generated. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity on the definitions and assumptions regarding module generation, particularly in relation to the specific conditions outlined in Bland's proof.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".

I am trying to understand Section 2.2 on free modules and need help with the proof of Corollary 2.2.4.

Corollary 2.2.4 and its proof read as follows:View attachment 3533
View attachment 3534In the second last paragraph of Bland's proof above we read:

" ... ... If $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$, then $$ \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F $$ ... ... "My question is as follows:

How, exactly, do we know that $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ implies that $$\sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F$$ ... ... that is, is it possible that for some $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is no element $$x $$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F $$?To make sure my question is clear ... ...

If F is a free R-module with basis $$\{ x_\alpha \}_\Delta $$, then every element $$x \in F$$ can be expressed (generated) as a sum of the form:

$$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$

... ... BUT ... ... does this mean that for any element $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is actually an element $$x \in F$$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$?

... OR ... to put it another way ... could it be that for some element $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is actually NO element $$x \in F$$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$?

Can someone please clarify this issue for me?

Peter
***EDIT***

I thought I would try to clarify just exactly why I am perplexed about the nature of the generation of a module or submodule by a set $$S$$.

Bland defines the generation of a submodule of $$N$$ of an $$R$$-module $$M$$ as follows:View attachment 3535Now consider a submodule $$L$$ of $$M$$ such that $$L \subset N$$.

See Figure $$1$$ as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/3536Now $$L$$, like $$N$$, will (according to Bland's definition) also be generated by $$S$$, since every element $$y \in L$$ will be able to be expressed as a sum

$$y = \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha
$$

where $$x_\alpha \in S $$ and $$a_\alpha \in R$$

This is possible since every element of $$N$$ (and hence $$L$$) can be expressed this way.However ... ... if we consider $$x \in N$$ such that $$x \notin L$$ then

$$x = \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha
$$

for some $$x_\alpha, a_\alpha
$$

... ... BUT ... ... in this case, there is no $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) } $$ such that

$$ \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha \in L $$

... ... BUT ... ... this is what is assumed in Bland's proof of Corollary $$2.2.4$$?

Can someone please clarify this issue ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
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Peter said:
I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".I am trying to understand Section 2.2 on free modules and need help with the proof of Corollary 2.2.4.Corollary 2.2.4 and its proof read as follows:View attachment 3533View attachment 3534In the second last paragraph of Bland's proof above we read:" ... ... If $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$, then $$ \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F $$ ... ... "My question is as follows:How, exactly, do we know that $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ implies that $$\sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F$$ ... ... that is, is it possible that for some $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is no element $$x $$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha \in F $$?To make sure my question is clear ... ...If F is a free R-module with basis $$\{ x_\alpha \}_\Delta $$, then every element $$x \in F$$ can be expressed (generated) as a sum of the form:$$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$... ... BUT ... ... does this mean that for any element $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is actually an element $$x \in F$$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$?... OR ... to put it another way ... could it be that for some element $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) }$$ there is actually NO element $$x \in F$$ such that $$x = \sum_\Delta x_\alpha a_\alpha $$?Can someone please clarify this issue for me?Peter***EDIT***I thought I would try to clarify just exactly why I am perplexed about the nature of the generation of a module or submodule by a set $$S$$.Bland defines the generation of a submodule of $$N$$ of an $$R$$-module $$M$$ as follows:View attachment 3535Now consider a submodule $$L$$ of $$M$$ such that $$L \subset N$$.See Figure $$1$$ as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/3536Now $$L$$, like $$N$$, will (according to Bland's definition) also be generated by $$S$$, since every element $$y \in L$$ will be able to be expressed as a sum$$y = \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha$$where $$x_\alpha \in S $$ and $$a_\alpha \in R$$This is possible since every element of $$N$$ (and hence $$L$$) can be expressed this way.However ... ... if we consider $$x \in N$$ such that $$x \notin L$$ then $$x = \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha$$for some $$x_\alpha, a_\alpha$$... ... BUT ... ... in this case, there is no $$(a_\alpha) \in R^{ ( \Delta ) } $$ such that $$ \sum_{\Delta} x_\alpha a_\alpha \in L $$... ... BUT ... ... this is what is assumed in Bland's proof of Corollary $$2.2.4$$?Can someone please clarify this issue ...Peter
There is no problem here. What you have shown is, under your hypothesis, that $L=N$. This is expected, obvious actually.The submodule generated by a subset $S$, denoted $\langle S\rangle$, of a given module $M$ is the "smallest" submodule of $M$ which contains $S$. One way to describe it is $$\langle S\rangle =\bigcap_{K\text{ a submodule of } M, S\subseteq K} K$$Now if a subset $S$ of $M$ is contained in a submodule of $M$, $\langle S\rangle$ cannot be any larger than $N$. From your hypothesis, it is immediate that$$\langle S\rangle =L=N$$Considering an analogous situation for groups might be helpful.
 
caffeinemachine said:
There is no problem here. What you have shown is, under your hypothesis, that $L=N$. This is expected, obvious actually.The submodule generated by a subset $S$, denoted $\langle S\rangle$, of a given module $M$ is the "smallest" submodule of $M$ which contains $S$. One way to describe it is $$\langle S\rangle =\bigcap_{K\text{ a submodule of } M, S\subseteq K} K$$Now if a subset $S$ of $M$ is contained in a submodule of $M$, $\langle S\rangle$ cannot be any larger than $N$. From your hypothesis, it is immediate that$$\langle S\rangle =L=N$$Considering an analogous situation for groups might be helpful.
Thanks caffeinmachine ... Really appreciate your clarification of this matter ... most helpful ... thank you again ...

I guess in essence you are saying that since N is the smallest submodule containing S, that we must have L = N ...

Peter
 
Peter said:
Thanks caffeinmachine ... Really appreciate your clarification of this matter ... most helpful ... thank you again ...

I guess in essence you are saying that since N is the smallest submodule containing S, that we must have L = N ...

Peter
Yes. That's correct.
 

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