Frequency higher then plasma frequency

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    Frequency Plasma
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electromagnetic waves with frequencies higher than the plasma frequency, particularly focusing on the reasons for minimal attenuation in such cases. Participants explore the implications of plasma physics, the oscillation capabilities of electrons, and the characteristics of materials at plasma frequency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how electrons can fail to oscillate at high frequencies, seeking clarification on the underlying mechanics.
  • Another participant explains that plasma behavior is non-linear, introducing the concept of the "Convective Derivative" and discussing the implications of inertia on electron response to electric fields at high frequencies.
  • A participant references a Wikipedia entry stating that at plasma frequency and above, dielectrics behave like ideal metals, expressing confusion about the terminology used regarding plasma frequency.
  • In response, another participant clarifies that plasma frequency is not limited to conductors and can apply to various materials, noting that many materials behave like plasma under high-frequency electromagnetic waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of plasma frequency to materials, with some asserting its relevance to dielectrics while others emphasize its connection to conductors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific definitions and implications of plasma frequency.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about electron behavior, the definitions of plasma frequency, and the conditions under which different materials exhibit plasma-like characteristics.

Thierry12
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Electromagnetic wave with higher frequency then plasma frequency are barely attenuated. I always hear that the reason is the electrons can't oscillate fast enought... how does that actually work? (how can an electron not be able to oscillate at the same speed?)
 
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Because the behavior of a plasma is non-linear. Take a look at the "Convective Derivative." A normal force equation, assuming constant mass, is just [tex]m\frac{\partial \mathbf{v}}{\partial t}[/tex] but when we talk about plasma, there is an extra term that arises resulting in the force being [tex]m\left[\frac{\partial \mathbf{u}}{\partial t} + \left(\mathbf{u}\cdot \nabla \right)\mathbf{u} \right][/tex]. This non-linearity gives rise to the ponderamotive force and other effects that will affect the propagation. In addition, electrons have mass and thus will time-lag the electric feld due to their inertia. If the frequency is low enough, the lag is negligible but at very very high frequencies they cannot keep up with the oscillations. This is a common assumption with the ions but it can apply to the electrons too.
 
I just read this on a wikipedia page:
At the plasma frequency and above, dielectrics behave as ideal metals, with electron gas behavior.

I thought 'plasma frequency' referred to conductors not dielectrics.
 
Plasma frequency applies to many things. It is not necessarily tied to one type of material and is derived based upon plasma physics, an ionized gas. So anytime that you can achieve a plasma in a material, the plasma frequency can arise to describe various phenomenon. A lot of materials, when subjected to a very high frequency electromagnetic wave, will behave like a plasma. Conductors will do this, I believe silver's plasma frequency is in the terahertz, but it does not surprise me that it can occur in dielectrics too.
 

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