Friction and Gravity: Can Physics Be Defined by Math?

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The discussion centers on the relationship between friction force and gravity, specifically the equations Ff = μN and Ff = μ.m.g. It is debated whether friction force (Ff) can be zero when gravity is present, with one viewpoint asserting that Ff can be zero in static conditions while Fmax cannot. The consensus indicates that while Fmax cannot be zero under gravity, Ff can indeed be zero if the object remains completely static. The conversation also touches on the implications of friction in dynamic versus static conditions and how mass affects frictional force. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the complexities of defining physical concepts solely through mathematical formulas.
betteragnostc
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The formula of friction force is

Ff = μN

can also be defined as

Ff = μ.m.g

One of my friend say that mathematically, that equation tell us that when there is a gravity force, Ff can't be zero assuming that there is no zero μ

Is that true? While on static condition I will say that even when there's a gravity force, the friction force is zero. But he said then if it is in static condition, then the formula would be

Fmax = μ.m.g

which mean when there is a gravity force, Fmax can't be zero.

Can physics really defined just by formula mathematically?
 
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betteragnostc said:
The formula of friction force is

Ff = μN

No, that only applies to dynamic friction and when the bodies are about to become dynamic (ie Fstatic = Fmax).

In the static case, Ff < µN
… But he said then if it is in static condition, then the formula would be

Fmax = μ.m.g

which mean when there is a gravity force, Fmax can't be zero.

Yes, Fmax can't be zero, but Ff can be zero.
 
tiny-tim said:
Yes, Fmax can't be zero, but Ff can be zero.

Is that true that the only condition Ff can be zero on gravity influence, is when the mass become completely static?
 
I don't really understand what you're asking. :confused:

If the mass is moving, then the friction force is always µN.
 
Which us easier to pull or push?Is there any impact of friction?If so how the mass will effect to that?
 

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