Friction and Gravity: Can Physics Be Defined by Math?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between friction and gravity, specifically examining whether physics can be defined solely through mathematical formulas. Participants explore the implications of friction formulas in both static and dynamic conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the formula for friction force as Ff = μN and suggests it can also be expressed as Ff = μ.m.g, questioning whether Ff can be zero when gravity is present.
  • Another participant clarifies that Ff = μN applies to dynamic friction and that in static conditions, Ff can be less than μN, indicating that Ff can indeed be zero.
  • There is a consensus that while Fmax cannot be zero when gravity is acting, Ff can be zero under certain conditions.
  • A participant questions the specific conditions under which Ff can be zero when influenced by gravity, particularly in static scenarios.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the original question and states that if the mass is moving, the friction force is always μN.
  • A separate query is raised about the comparative ease of pulling versus pushing an object and how friction and mass affect this dynamic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Fmax cannot be zero when gravity is present, but there is disagreement regarding the conditions under which Ff can be zero. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of defining physics through mathematical formulas.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully clarified the assumptions regarding static versus dynamic friction, nor have they resolved the mathematical implications of their statements. The discussion also lacks a consensus on the definitions and conditions affecting friction force.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, particularly in the areas of mechanics and friction, as well as individuals curious about the mathematical representation of physical concepts.

betteragnostc
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The formula of friction force is

Ff = μN

can also be defined as

Ff = μ.m.g

One of my friend say that mathematically, that equation tell us that when there is a gravity force, Ff can't be zero assuming that there is no zero μ

Is that true? While on static condition I will say that even when there's a gravity force, the friction force is zero. But he said then if it is in static condition, then the formula would be

Fmax = μ.m.g

which mean when there is a gravity force, Fmax can't be zero.

Can physics really defined just by formula mathematically?
 
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betteragnostc said:
The formula of friction force is

Ff = μN

No, that only applies to dynamic friction and when the bodies are about to become dynamic (ie Fstatic = Fmax).

In the static case, Ff < µN
… But he said then if it is in static condition, then the formula would be

Fmax = μ.m.g

which mean when there is a gravity force, Fmax can't be zero.

Yes, Fmax can't be zero, but Ff can be zero.
 
tiny-tim said:
Yes, Fmax can't be zero, but Ff can be zero.

Is that true that the only condition Ff can be zero on gravity influence, is when the mass become completely static?
 
I don't really understand what you're asking. :confused:

If the mass is moving, then the friction force is always µN.
 
Which us easier to pull or push?Is there any impact of friction?If so how the mass will effect to that?
 

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