FRW metric derivation: constraints from isotropic and homoge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Friedmann-Robertson-Walker (FRW) metric, specifically focusing on the constraints imposed by isotropy and homogeneity in cosmological models. Participants explore the implications of certain terms in the metric and their effects on the properties of spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why terms like ##dtdx^i## indicate a preferred direction, suggesting that identical terms for each ##x^i## could lead to ambiguity in defining such a direction.
  • Others argue that the coefficient ##B_i## associated with these terms defines a preferred direction, regardless of whether the components are equal.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of having the ##g_{tt}## component depend on ##x^i##, with some asserting that this would break homogeneity, while others propose that symmetrical functions could maintain homogeneity.
  • Participants discuss the time dependence of ##h^{ij}##, with some asserting it can only vary through an overall scale factor ##a(t)##, while others seek clarification on the definitions of isotropy and homogeneity.
  • There is a debate about the nature of ##B_i##, with some asserting it is a vector and others questioning its classification as a scalar or component of a tensor.
  • One participant introduces the concept of Gaussian Normal coordinates, suggesting that certain conditions can be achieved in any spacetime region, which may challenge the constraints discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the implications of the constraints related to isotropy and homogeneity, as well as the nature of the terms in the metric.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding definitions and implications of terms in the metric, and there are references to specific examples and exercises that may not be universally agreed upon.

binbagsss
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I don't understand the reasoning for any of the three constraints imposed.

why would ##dtdx^i## terms indicate a preferred direction? what if there was identical terms for each ##x^i## would there still be a specified or preferred direction? (or is it that in this case we could rename ##t## to make these terms redundant?)

I don't understand why if the ##g_tt## component were to depend on ##x^i## homogeneity would be broken? (also again, what if we had some function symmetrical in all ##x^i##; would it still be broken?)Consistent with not understanding this I don't understnad why ##h^{ij} ## can not have time-dependence.

The definitions I have are:

. Homogeneous is defined as "the same in all locations" while isotropic means "the same in all directions

ta
 

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binbagsss said:
why would ##dtdx^i## terms indicate a preferred direction?

Because the coefficient that multiplies them, ##B_i##, defines a preferred direction: the direction of the vector ##B_i##.

binbagsss said:
what if there was identical terms for each ##x^i##

That just means that the vector ##B_i## points in a direction that has equal ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## components. That's not the same as not having a preferred direction.

binbagsss said:
I don't understand why if the ##g_{tt}## component were to depend on ##x^i## homogeneity would be broken?

Because homogeneity means things are the same at every spatial point at a given instant of time. If ##g_{tt}## depends on ##x^i##, then the "time dilation factor" is not the same at every spatial point at a given instant of time.

binbagsss said:
I don't understnad why ##h^{ij}## can not have time-dependence.

That's not what the quote you gave says. It says that the time dependence of ##h_{ij}## can only be in an overall scale factor ##a(t)##, so that ##h_{ij} = a(t) \gamma_{ij}##, where ##\gamma_{ij}## does not depend on time.
 
PeterDonis said:
That just means that the vector ##B_i## points in a direction that has equal ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## components. That's not the same as not having a preferred direction.
.

So say ##2dxdt+2dydt+2dzdt## ; ##B_i=2##; what is the preferred direction?
I thought ##B_i## is a component of the tensor ##g_{uv}## and is therefore a scalar and not a vector?
 
PeterDonis said:
That's not what the quote you gave says. It says that the time dependence of ##h_{ij}## can only be in an overall scale factor ##a(t)##, so that ##h_{ij} = a(t) \gamma_{ij}##, where ##\gamma_{ij}## does not depend on time.

so the definition for isotropic is again at a given time it must look the same in all directions?
 
binbagsss said:
So say ##2dxdt+2dydt+2dzdt## ; Bi=2

No, ##B_i## is a vector with components ##(2, 2, 2)##. Big difference.

binbagsss said:
I thought ##B_i## is a component of the tensor ##g_{uv}## and is therefore a scalar and not a vector?

First, components of a tensor are not scalars. They are numbers, but they are not invariant under coordinate transformations, so they're not scalars (a scalar is defined as a number that is invariant under coordinate transformations, like the invariant norm of a 4-vector).

Second, the notation your source is using is confusing if you are trying to keep components straight. It is splitting up the 4x4 symmetric matrix ##g_{uv}##, with 10 components, as follows: the number ##g_{00}## (1 component), the 3-vector ##B_i## (3 components) and the 3x3 symmetric matrix ##h_{ij}## (6 components). The term ##B_i dt dx^i## is actually a summation: it's three terms added together (using the Einstein summation convention), so ##B_i## in their notation represents a 3-vector.
 
PeterDonis said:
No, ##B_i## is a vector with components ##(2, 2, 2)##. Big difference.

ok, but what is the preffered direction?
 
binbagsss said:
what is the preffered direction?

The direction pointed at by a vector with components ##(2, 2, 2)##.
 
I find the whole discussion in the source quoted in the OP problematic. In any manifold at all, some finite (often large) spacetime region can be put into Gaussian Normal coordinates such that g00 is 1 and g0i is zero. In other words, in the terms of the OP snippet, A = 1, B = 0, can be achieved for some region of any spacetime at all, around any point. What isotropy/homogeneity require is that h is factorable into a function of time and a spatial submetric that does not depend on time and that has constant curvature (for some foliation).

See, for example MTW, exercise 27.2

[edit: for an interesting example, Lemaitre coordinates represent a Gaussian Normal system for the Schwarzschild metric, covering one exterior [in relation to Kruskal coordinates] and the portion of one interior accessible to a collapsed body. The Schwarzschild geometry is clearly not homogenous, let alone isotropic about every point.]
 
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