Fundamental and contravariant representations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between covariant and contravariant representations in the context of the group SL(2,C). Participants explore the implications of the determinant condition (detN=1) on the independence of these representations and seek examples of when they may be independent.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the invariant of SL(2,C) is proven to be invariant under the group action, suggesting that covariant and contravariant representations are not independent due to the condition detN=1.
  • Others argue that while covariant and contravariant spinor representations are equivalent, they question whether this equivalence is a direct consequence of detN=1 and if it can be generalized to other algebras.
  • There is a request for examples where covariant and contravariant representations are truly independent, with a distinction made that the discussion should not focus on conjugate representations.
  • One participant expresses frustration over perceived misunderstandings in responses, emphasizing the need for clarity in addressing the original questions posed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that covariant and contravariant representations are equivalent, but there is disagreement on whether this equivalence is directly tied to the determinant condition and whether examples of independence exist.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the generalization of the determinant condition to other algebras and the existence of independent representations, indicating potential limitations in their current understanding.

gentsagree
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The invariant of SL(2,C) is proven to be invariant under the action of the group by the following

\epsilon'_{\alpha\beta} = N_{\alpha}^{\rho}N_{\beta}^{\sigma}\epsilon_{\rho\sigma}=\epsilon_{\alpha\beta}detN=\epsilon_{\alpha\beta}

The existence of an invariant of this form (with two indices down) tells us that the covariant (here fundamental of SL(2,C)) and contra variant reps aren't independent. This seems to me to follow directly from the fact that detN=1. Is this true? And can anyone bring forward an example where covariant and contra variant reps are truly independent?
 
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gentsagree said:
The invariant of SL(2,C) is proven to be invariant under the action of the group by the following

\epsilon'_{\alpha\beta} = N_{\alpha}^{\rho}N_{\beta}^{\sigma}\epsilon_{\rho\sigma}=\epsilon_{\alpha\beta}detN=\epsilon_{\alpha\beta}

The existence of an invariant of this form (with two indices down) tells us that the covariant (here fundamental of SL(2,C)) and contra variant reps aren't independent. This seems to me to follow directly from the fact that detN=1. Is this true?
Yes, covariant and contravariant spinor representations are EQUIVALENT, i.e. they belong to the same representation space of SL(2,C).
And can anyone bring forward an example where covariant and contra variant reps are truly independent?
In SL(2,C), lowering or raising the indices by the spinor metric \epsilon_{ \alpha \beta } and \epsilon^{ \alpha \beta } does not produce new representation. However, complex conjugation does lead to new inequivalent representation \psi^{ \dot{ \alpha } } = \epsilon^{ \dot{ \alpha } \dot{ \beta } } \psi_{ \dot{ \beta } }.
 
Why do you reply to posts if you don't read the questions properly first?

1. I know they are EQUIVALENT. I am asking whether this is a direct consequence of the fact that detN=1, i.e. if I could generalise this, for instance, by saying that "every algebra with detN=1 possesses a 2nd rank invariant tensor", or perhaps not, I am missing something.

2. Again, here I ask whether anybody can bring forward an example where covariant and contravariant representations are truly independent of each other, not whether the conjugate representation is.
 
gentsagree said:
Why do you reply to posts if you don't read the questions properly first?

1. I know they are EQUIVALENT. I am asking whether this is a direct consequence of the fact that detN=1, i.e. if I could generalise this, for instance, by saying that "every algebra with detN=1 possesses a 2nd rank invariant tensor", or perhaps not, I am missing something.

2. Again, here I ask whether anybody can bring forward an example where covariant and contravariant representations are truly independent of each other, not whether the conjugate representation is.
Instead of asking MEANINGLESS questions and being RUDE to the person who is trying to help you, you should spend your time learning the ABC of group theory.
 
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