Which Convention Should Be Used to Calculate Electromagnetic Tensor Invariants?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the invariant \(\tilde{F}^{\mu \nu} F_{\mu \nu}\), where \(F\) is the electromagnetic field tensor and \(\tilde{F}\) is its dual. The original poster presents their calculations and expresses confusion regarding the signs and results obtained, particularly in relation to the conventions used for the Levi-Civita symbol.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the invariant using specific relations between the components of the tensors but encounters discrepancies in the results based on the conventions applied. Some participants question the correctness of certain tensor identities and the treatment of the Levi-Civita symbol.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's calculations, with some suggesting a need to verify the conventions being used. There is an exploration of different interpretations regarding the properties of the Levi-Civita symbol and its implications for the calculations. No consensus has been reached, but various perspectives are being considered.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of conventions in tensor calculus, particularly regarding the Levi-Civita symbol, and how these conventions can affect the results of calculations. The original poster notes a potential sign error and seeks clarification on the conventions used in their course materials.

parton
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Homework Statement


Hi,

I have to calculate the invariant: \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu} \, F_{\mu \nu}
where F is the electromagnetic field tensor and \tilde{F} the dual one.

Homework Equations


First, the contravariant components of the electromagnetic field tensor are given by:
F^{\mu\nu} = \begin{bmatrix} 0 & -E_1 & -E_2 & -E_3 \\ E_1 & 0 & -B_3 & B_2 \\ E_2 & B_3 & 0 & -B_1 \\ E_3 & -B_2 & B_1 & 0 \end{bmatrix}

and the covariant by:
F_{\mu\nu} = \begin{bmatrix} 0 & E_1 & E_2 & E_3 \\ -E_1 & 0 & -B_3 & B_2 \\ -E_2 & B_3 & 0 & -B_1 \\ -E_3 & -B_2 & B_1 & 0 \end{bmatrix}

And last but not least, the contravariant components of the dual elm. field tensor:
\tilde{F}^{\mu\nu} = \begin{bmatrix} 0 &amp; -B_1 &amp; -B_2 &amp; -B_3 \\ B_1 &amp; 0 &amp; E_3 &amp; -E_2 \\ B_2 &amp; -E_3 &amp; 0 &amp; E_1 \\ B_3 &amp; E_2 &amp; -E_1 &amp; 0 \end{bmatrix}<br />

The Attempt at a Solution


First I note:
\tilde{F}^{a0} = B^{a}

\tilde{F}^{ab} = \epsilon^{abi} E_{i}

F_{a0} = - E_{a}

F_{ab} = \epsilon_{abc} B^{c}

Now, if I use these relations I obtain the wrong solution:

\tilde{F}^{\mu \nu} \, F_{\mu \nu} = 2 \tilde{F}^{a0} F_{a0} + \tilde{F}^{ab} F_{ab} = - 2 B^{a} E_{a} + \epsilon^{abi} E_{i} \epsilon_{abc} B^{c} = 0
where I used the relation: \epsilon^{abi} \epsilon_{abc} = 2 \delta^{i}_{c}

Of course, if i simply insert the components explicitly (the "matrix elements") I get the result \tilde{F}^{\mu \nu} \, F_{\mu \nu} = - 4 \vec{B} \cdot \vec{E} and everything is fine.

I used the following convention: \epsilon^{0123} = 1, latin indices: {1,2,3}, greek indices: {0,1,2,3}

Further I calculated: \epsilon_{123} = \eta_{\alpha 1} \, \eta_{\beta 2} \, \eta_{\gamma 3} \, \epsilon^{\alpha \beta \gamma} = - 1 where \eta = diag(1, -1, -1, -1) is the metric tensor.

I think there has to be a wrong sign, but I don't find it. Does anyone have an idea?
 
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parton said:
F_{ab} = \epsilon_{abc} B^{c}

I think you might want to double check this one :wink:
 
hmmm, I don't see anything wrong here !?

If I check it I obtain the right elements, for example: F_{12} = \epsilon_{123} B^{3} = - B^{3}.
 
parton said:
hmmm, I don't see anything wrong here !?

If I check it I obtain the right elements, for example: F_{12} = \epsilon_{123} B^{3} = - B^{3}.

\epsilon_{123}=+1 :wink:
 
parton said:
Further I calculated: \epsilon_{123} = \eta_{\alpha 1} \, \eta_{\beta 2} \, \eta_{\gamma 3} \, \epsilon^{\alpha \beta \gamma} = - 1

This assumes that \epsilon_{abc} transforms as a tensor; but it doesn't. It is a tensor density with weight -1.
 
ok, \epsilon_{ijk} is a pseudotensor, but where is the difference between covariant \epsilon_{ijk} and contravariant \epsilon^{ijk} components?

In the case with 4 indices there is a difference, for example: \epsilon^{0123} \neq \epsilon_{0123}. Why should it be different with 3 components?
 
parton said:
ok, \epsilon_{ijk} is a pseudotensor, but where is the difference between covariant \epsilon_{ijk} and contravariant \epsilon^{ijk} components?

There isn't a difference in the convention that I'm used to seeing.

In the case with 4 indices there is a difference, for example: \epsilon^{0123} \neq \epsilon_{0123}. Why should it be different with 3 components?

I'm assuming that you are using the same convention (the most common convention) http://planetmath.org/encyclopedia/LeviCivitaPermutationSymbol3.html .

In that case, then \epsilon^{0123} = \epsilon_{0123}.

If you are using some other convention, whereby \epsilon_{123}=-1 , then your problem is in the equation \epsilon^{abi} \epsilon_{abc} = 2 \delta^{i}_{c} instead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i've found something, have a look at this (page 9): http://www.worldscibooks.com/phy_etextbook/6938/6938_chap01.pdf"

Further I found something in another wiki (but it's not in english). There is a remark that in relativity there you have to differ between co- and contravariant indices. It is just convention whether you use \epsilon^{0123}= +1 or -1.

But all this doesn't explain my problem :confused:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
parton said:
i've found something, have a look at this (page 9): http://www.worldscibooks.com/phy_etextbook/6938/6938_chap01.pdf"

The convention used in the above link is not very common; but if that is the convention you use in your course then you can stick with it.

According to that convention, \epsilon_{ijk}=-e^{ijk} and e_{123}=1. Therefor, \epsilon^{abi} \epsilon_{abc} = -2 \delta^{i}_{c} in this convention. In addition, epsilon is a tensor in this convention.

So the question you need to ask yourself is which convention is used in your course text/notes?
 
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