Fusion or fission within the Earth?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential roles of fusion and fission within the Earth in contributing to its internal temperature. Participants explore the validity of claims regarding these processes, particularly in relation to global warming, while considering the implications of radioactive decay as a source of internal energy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea of fusion occurring within the Earth, labeling it as "crackpot territory" and suggesting that claims of fusion contributing to global warming lack credible support.
  • Others argue that while radioactive decay is a significant contributor to the Earth's internal energy, it does not imply that sustained fusion or fission reactions are occurring.
  • A participant mentions that credible evidence exists for a natural fission reactor that occurred in Africa approximately 1.7 billion years ago, but emphasizes that this does not relate to current processes affecting the Earth's core temperature.
  • Some participants clarify that the term "fission" in discussions about the Earth's heat source is often misused and typically refers to radioactive decay rather than a sustained chain reaction.
  • A later reply suggests that if the Earth is considered a reactor, fission reactions could be fueling its energy, referencing a specific scientific paper that discusses the potential for actinides to concentrate and create a critical mass in the Earth's inner core.
  • Another participant speculates on the possibility of correlating significant fission periods with extinction events, indicating a need for further research in this area.
  • Discussion includes the idea that if the inner core is composed of crystallized Nickel Silicide, it could support a fission reactor that contributes to the Earth's heat, although this remains speculative and requires more data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the role of fusion and fission within the Earth, with multiple competing views on the significance and implications of these processes. There is no consensus on whether fusion or fission is currently contributing to the Earth's internal temperature.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the current understanding of the Earth's internal processes, including the dependence on specific definitions of fusion and fission, and the unresolved nature of the claims regarding their contributions to geothermal energy.

Pattonias
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I have been searching online for any credible information about fusion or fission occurring and contributing significantly to the Earth internal temperature. Can anyone explain this to me further?

So far I have heard several media sources discussing how fusion within the Earth is a contributing factor to global warming. I had always believed that pressure was the primary cause of heat within the Earth.

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth" mentions nothing of fusion or fission occurring within the Earth.
 
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This is crackpot territory (fusion). There have been cases made for fission heat, most likely, the decay of 40K to 40Ar/40Ca but basically everything is speculation.
 
It is my understanding that radioactive decay contributes to the internal energy of our planet. Radioactive decay does not imply that either a sustained fussion or fission reaction is occurring.
 
Ok, that makes more sense. I figured it was a crackpot statement, but I had heard about it enough to warrant making sure.
 
Pattonias said:
I have been searching online for any credible information about fusion or fission occurring and contributing significantly to the Earth internal temperature. Can anyone explain this to me further?

So far I have heard several media sources discussing how fusion within the Earth is a contributing factor to global warming. I had always believed that pressure was the primary cause of heat within the Earth.

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth" mentions nothing of fusion or fission occurring within the Earth.
One would not find any 'credible' source that would cite fission or fusion occurring in the earth, and certainly it's not causing global warming. The conditions in the Earth are not favorable for pp-fusion, nor dd fusion. Any tritium would have decayed to He-3 (so no dt fusion, besides the conditions not favorable), and He-3 is pretty rare on earth.

As far as we know the core is Fe or Fe-Ni, so not favorable for fission which would require the right amount of U-235. If there was ongoing fission, we'd be seeing lots of neutrinos from within the earth.

One could ask if there is more geothermal energy/lava flows now than say 4 or 5 or 10 decades ago.
 
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Astronuc said:
One would not find any 'credible' source that would cite fission or fusion occurring in the earth, and certainly it's not causing global warming.

Not so!

While not a source of global warming, there is credible evidence of a natural fission reactor occurring in Africa approximately 1.7 billion years ago.

Here is the fact sheet from the DOE:

http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.shtml
 
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yes, xnn, there was very likely an ancient natural reaction running for a period of time, however being located on the surface, did not contribute energy to heat the Earth's core. That was the original question.
 
Xnn said:
Not so!

While not a source of global warming, there is credible evidence of a natural fission reactor occurring in Africa approximately 1.7 billion years ago.

Here is the fact sheet from the DOE:

http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/factsheets/doeymp0010.shtml
1.7 billion years ago is not within the last few decades or centuries - now is it? We're talking about present times - not millions of or a billion years ago. :rolleyes:

The hottest part of the Earth is the core, with some heat coming up through the crust in areas of volcanic activity, e.g. subduction zones. But we see no evidence of fission, and certainly not fusion.
 
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Integral said:
It is my understanding that radioactive decay contributes to the internal energy of our planet. Radioactive decay does not imply that either a sustained fussion or fission reaction is occurring.
I believe that most of the statements one reads about "fission" in the core as a heat source are actually referring to radioactive decay. The term is not entirely inaccurate, as this is a process of atomic nuclei splitting and giving off energy as a by-product. However, the word "fission" normally refers to a sustained chain reaction.
 
  • #10
If Earth is a reactor than fission reaction fuels the energy on Earth .
Refer to this abstract
www(dot)pnas(dot)org/content/98/20/11085(dot)full
 
  • #11
Eric McClean said:
If Earth is a reactor than fission reaction fuels the energy on Earth .
Refer to this abstract
www(dot)pnas(dot)org/content/98/20/11085(dot)full

I wonder if there has been any work done in this area since the paper was written? It was submitted in 2001.

It would be interesting to see if there was any way to create a time line of significant fission periods and maybe see if they correlate with major and minor extinction events.
 
  • #12
http://www.pnas.org/content/98/20/11085.full

Interesting paper...

In summary, if the inner core is formed of crystallized Nickel Silicide instead of Iron, then it would be stable. Over time Uranium, Thorium and other actinides due to their mass would tend to concentrate along the boundary of the inner core where they could reach a critical mass. Such a reactor could be producing about 10% of the heat within the Earth and would vary over time as the actinides were gradually scavenged from the outer core and mantel. This variation over time might explain reversals of the Earth's geomagnetic field.

The reactor would need to be a breeder to have lasted as long as it has and to have only slightly dropped in power over 4.5 billion years. The ratio of 3He/4He found in deep-mantle magma sources (Hawaiian volcanic lavas) are in excess of the current atmospheric ratio by a large factor, and are consistent with those from a Deep-Earth Reactor.

More work is needed to obtain fission yield data for Neon to see if it is consistent with the above assumptions.
 

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