Generators for Lorentz transformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identification of a minimal set of matrices that can generate all Lorentz transformations in Minkowski spacetime. Participants explore the definitions of "generator" in both mathematical and physical contexts, the necessity of including all rotations and boosts, and the implications of these choices on the completeness of the transformation set.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a set of eight matrices, including three boosts, three rotations, and two inversions, as a potential generator for Lorentz transformations.
  • Another participant questions the need for all three rotations and suggests that combinations of rotations might suffice.
  • Some participants clarify that "generator" may refer to elements of the Lorentz Lie algebra, indicating a distinction in terminology between the math and physics communities.
  • There is a discussion about whether all Lorentz transformations can be expressed as combinations of the proposed transformations, with one participant expressing uncertainty about the completeness of the set.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the transformations listed are not the "generators" in the Lie algebra sense, but rather exponentials of those generators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity of including all rotations and boosts, and there is ongoing debate about the definitions and implications of "generators" in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of the proposed transformation set.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of generators, the dependence on specific mathematical formalizations, and the assumptions about the independence of rotations and boosts.

Wox
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Consider Minkowski spacetime with signature (-+++) and coordinates (ct,x,y,z) with respect to the standard orthogonal basis. I'm looking for the smallest set of matrices that can generate any Lorentz transformation with respect to this basis. I came up with 8 matrices (see below). Am I missing something?

Three boosts (in x, y and z direction)
[tex] \text{Boost}_{x}(\tilde{\alpha})=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> \cosh\tilde{\alpha}&\sinh\tilde{\alpha}&0&0\\<br /> \sinh\tilde{\alpha}&\cosh\tilde{\alpha}&0&0\\<br /> 0&0&1&0\\<br /> 0&0&0&1<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad<br /> \text{Boost}_{y}(\tilde{\beta})=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> \cosh\tilde{\beta}&0&\sinh\tilde{\beta}&0\\<br /> 0&1&0&0\\<br /> \sinh\tilde{\beta}&0&\cosh\tilde{\beta}&0\\<br /> 0&0&0&1<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad<br /> \text{Boost}_{z}(\tilde{\gamma})=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> \cosh\tilde{\gamma}&0&0&\sinh\tilde{\gamma}\\<br /> 0&1&0&0\\<br /> 0&0&1&0\\<br /> \sinh\tilde{\gamma}&0&0&\cosh\tilde{\gamma}\\<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad[/tex]
Three spatial rotations
[tex] \text{Rot}_{x}(\alpha)=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> 1&0&0&0\\<br /> 0&1&0&0\\<br /> 0&0&\cos\alpha&\sin\alpha\\<br /> 0&0&-\sin\alpha&\cos\alpha\\<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad<br /> \text{Rot}_{y}(\beta)=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> 1&0&0&0\\<br /> 0&\cos\beta&0&-\sin\beta\\<br /> 0&0&1&0\\<br /> 0&\sin\beta&0&\cos\beta\\<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad<br /> \text{Rot}_{z}(\gamma)=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> 1&0&0&0\\<br /> 0&\cos\gamma&\sin\gamma&0\\<br /> 0&-\sin\gamma&\cos\gamma&0\\<br /> 0&0&0&1\\<br /> \end{matrix}\right][/tex]
Two inversions
[tex] I=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> 1&0&0&0\\<br /> 0&-1&0&0\\<br /> 0&0&-1&0\\<br /> 0&0&0&-1<br /> \end{matrix}\right]\quad<br /> \tilde{I}=\left[\begin{matrix}<br /> -1&0&0&0\\<br /> 0&1&0&0\\<br /> 0&0&1&0\\<br /> 0&0&0&1<br /> \end{matrix}\right][/tex]
 
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What do you mean by "generator" and "generate"? I suspect that you take your meanings from the math community. For the physics community, "generator" often means "element of the Lorentz Lie algebra".

Do you really need rotations about all three axes? For example, what does a rotation about the x-axis followed by a rotation about the y-axis give?

If you have all the rotations, do you need boosts in three linearly independent directions?
 
George Jones said:
Do you really need rotations about all three axes? For example, what does a rotation about the x-axis followed by a rotation about the y-axis give?

To describe an arbitrary rotation I need all three, no?

As for generators: I mean in the mathematical sense. Every Lorentz transformation can be written as a combination of these generators. I was thinking about the generators of a group, but this is different because [itex]\text{Rot}_{x}(\alpha)[/itex] is not one element of the Lorentz group but many elements, so I'm not sure how this is mathematically formalized.
 
George Jones said:
For example, what does a rotation about the x-axis followed by a rotation about the y-axis give?

I should have written
For example, what does a rotation of pi/2 about they y-axis followed by an arbitrary rotation about the x-axis followed by a rotation of -pi/2 about the y-axis give?
 
Hmmm, I see what you mean. So I can skip one rotation and two boosts. But more importantly, are there Lorentz transformations that can't be written as a combinations of the transformations given?
 
Your set of transformations covers everything. However, they are not the "generators". The generators of a Lie group are the elements of the Lie algebra. The boosts and rotations you gave are exponentials of Lie algebra elements, so you're close.
 
George Jones said:
What do you mean by "generator" and "generate"? I suspect that you take your meanings from the math community. For the physics community, "generator" often means "element of the Lorentz Lie algebra".
Ben Niehoff said:
Your set of transformations covers everything. However, they are not the "generators". The generators of a Lie group are the elements of the Lie algebra. The boosts and rotations you gave are exponentials of Lie algebra elements, so you're close.
From Wikipedia (which I think is common usage in the math community)
Equivalently, a generating set of a group is a subset such that every element of the group can be expressed as the combination (under the group operation) of finitely many elements of the subset and their inverses.
 

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