Getting a B.S. in Physics was a big mistake aparently.

[Shackleford]

I somewhat agree with that. But the article seems to be directed more towards those with PhDs.

Maybe 15-20 years ago, engineering and physics were very close. People with physics degree could land an engineering job easily. There wasn't much difference between them (probably course-wise).

However, times change... as the years have been pass, engineering has become more sophisticated and specialized. Physics is still very general and broad. That may be good for some jobs, but not all. For an example, an automobile company would most likely hire a mechanical engineer than a physicist to help design their cars.

You may be a MORE likable person with good social skills than the engineer that's applying for the same job, but if you lack the experience and knowledge of the field you won't have much options.

So, you're saying physics majors have better social skills than engineering majors? lol.

 

[fizziks]

So, you're saying physics majors have better social skills than engineering majors? lol.

maybe... Physics required so less work, you had more time to hang out with friends, work, or just whatever. I knew some friends back in college that were engineering majors; for them it was mostly work, work on projects, class, and study. But I'm pretty sure it pays off a bit more at the end.

But at the end, good social and communication skills may impress the employer, but it won't save you for not having specialized or even general knowledge in an engineering field.

 

[eep]

I'd have to disagree with physics being less work than engineering, but I think the truth of the matter is that it really depends on the university.

 

[Shackleford]

I've always been told that a physics degree is a little more difficult conceptually, but the engineering workload is more intense. Another advantage to me when finally deciding on physics over civil engineering - among other things - is that I would have a life and go to school concurrently. It wouldn't be the case with the CivE major.

 

[Defennder]

We should not be surprised if in the next couple of years colleges & universities which offer Bachelor... degrees in Physics will insist on sets of "cognate" courses in Engineering for Physic major students. Maybe undergraduate degrees in Physics will be fitted with a few specific options as is done in some other kinds of colege programs. There could be the business option, the pure physics option, the teaching option, the engineering option...

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

 

[rbj]

i just don't get why this guy who's published more than 99% of grad students in physics doesn't consider grad school and an advanced degree. sounds to me that he should have little problem with either admission or financing (either an RA or a TA - maybe a full-tilt scholarship/fellowship).

 

[clope023]

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

true, in my school for instance apart from the BS in physics, they offer:

a BA where you take like 20 extra electives
a BA in biophysics
a BA in physics with enteprenual emphasis
a BS in physics education (for grades 6-12 from the education department though)

in the engineering department they also offer minors in robots and mechatronics so you could do that too.

 

[RufusDawes]

In the meantime I hear truckl driving pays reasonably well and there are many opportunities for overtime. You could do a stint of a year or two so that you're financial to pay for further schooling or whatever else.

 

[RufusDawes]

Just start calling engineering companies. Tell them you're a graduate and a student, explain your situation, talk directly to a company it can't hurt.

 

[colin.mcenroe]

This is why I am getting ready to change my major to Applied Physics with an emphasis on Physical Electronics. Basically I take 4 upper division EEC classes and 3 electronics classes through the physics dept, 3 quarters E&M, 1 mechanics, 1 QM, 1 solid state, 1 stat mech, and a few other classes. I figure it will be good for employability when I am done, and according to the professor I work with (who happens to be in charge of graduate admissions) it does not hurt my grad school chances at all should I choose to go. Plus I can get out of my second quarter of mechanics, which I loathe.

It is surely a great thing to be a 4th year taking 3rd year classes. Ah, the joys of being a transfer student. At least I enjoy my research (which has not led me to any high power publications, but is a great experience none-the-less).

 

[ks_physicist]

My problem was believing my advisors and online sources that engineering/comp sci disciplines would be intersted in a physics degree.

Even the AIP, with their employment surveys and published statistics, is supporting this lie.

The problem is that 20 years ago it wasn't a lie. Companies hired physicists to do engineering work (under a PE) and to do programming.

Now, Human Resources departments do the hiring or at least the initial screening, and they will use whatever "logical" filtering system works. So the highly qualified physicist whom the engineering department would love to hire will be filtered out because the degree is not in an engineering discipline from an A.B.E.T. accredited institution.

It sucks, but that's the way it is. I would never advise anyone to earn (just) a bachelor's in physics. Even if they want to do grad school in physics, I would advise at minimum a double-major in physics and engineering or physics and computer science. Then, at least, if they need to take a break or decide grad school in physics isn't for them, they can find decent paying job.

 

[Asphodel]

Now, Human Resources departments do the hiring or at least the initial screening, and they will use whatever "logical" filtering system works. So the highly qualified physicist whom the engineering department would love to hire will be filtered out because the degree is not in an engineering discipline from an A.B.E.T. accredited institution.

Honestly - if you've got an engineering department that would love to hire you, and you let HR filter you out, then you deserve not to get the job. But yes, it's hard coming in "cold" and you need to do much more networking than previously to have good job prospects starting out.

 

[sunil774]

SO Ijackson, where did you get your BS from ?

 

[ks_physicist]

Honestly - if you've got an engineering department that would love to hire you, and you let HR filter you out, then you deserve not to get the job. But yes, it's hard coming in "cold" and you need to do much more networking than previously to have good job prospects starting out.

Yes, yes, networking is necessary, but for those people who find out about a job opening--or even hear through a friend about a job opening--the engineering department will never see the letter, never see the application.

As far as my investigation has been able to tell, this was NOT the case 20 years ago, hence the advice from faculty who were around then does not meet with reality now.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Even the AIP, with their employment surveys and published statistics, is supporting this lie.

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

Things are different now, that's for sure. The biggest difference I see is in the expectations of students:

(1) Back then, it was simply understood that if you wanted a job as an engineer, you got a degree in engineering. Undergrads in both physics and engineering knew that these were totally different fields.

(2) Back then, there wasn't this idea that it was the function of a university education to get you a job. Universities weren't seen as trade schools.

 

[fizziks]

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

Things are different now, that's for sure. The biggest difference I see is in the expectations of students:

(1) Back then, it was simply understood that if you wanted a job as an engineer, you got a degree in engineering. Undergrads in both physics and engineering knew that these were totally different fields.

(2) Back then, there wasn't this idea that it was the function of a university education to get you a job. Universities weren't seen as trade schools.

It's still the same today. If you wanted an engineering job, you major in engineering. An auto employer ain't going to hire a physics grad to design a car engine when he/she can hire a mechanical engineer. No matter how likable or interpersonal you were during the interview.

Personality and people skills will never save you from the lack of knowledge.

 

[ks_physicist]

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I sent the AIP a few questions, none of which have been answered fully. One of the questions asked was, "Of this sample of students with bachelor's degrees in physics, how many have ONLY the bachelor's degree in physics?"

The idea was that employment statistics for physics bachelor's might not represent the employment potential for PHYSICS bachelor's, if any sizable proportion of the survey respondents were physics/chemistry, physics/engineering, or even physics/math double majors. I do not have my email correspondence in front of me, but I THINK the AIP eventually responded to me with an answer that said that they did not have data on any other degrees the respondents might have.

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

I can't tell you where the "physicist as engineer" thing was started, then, as I graduated with a bachelor's less than a decade ago. What I can tell you is that I have met physicists working as engineers, I have been told that physicists can work as (staff) engineers, and I see that a handful of companies do still specifically include "physics" as one of the degrees that can qualify for an engineering position. Many companies that are reputed to have hired physicists into engineering disciplines in the past no longer have any regular pathway for physicists to be considered.

 

[ks_physicist]

It's still the same today. If you wanted an engineering job, you major in engineering. An auto employer ain't going to hire a physics grad to design a car engine when he/she can hire a mechanical engineer. No matter how likable or interpersonal you were during the interview.

Personality and people skills will never save you from the lack of knowledge.

Check out the bottom of this graph:

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/emp/figure9.htm

 

[RasslinGod]

physics majors as engineers?

what kind of engineers, who studied physics, did u meet? what was their job? how did they make up for the deficincy of a engineering curricullum?

 

[josh_einsle]

I work as a 'sr applications engineer' for an electron microscope and FIB manufacturer. I currently only have a b.a. in physics. while most of what i do is actually process engineering, meaning understanding stats and process variation, i have learned the majority of that by self taught or classes offered through the company. I also know plenty of other 'engineers' working in the company who have only physics or chem bachelors. Much of what it takes to build up parts of high tech systems is not necessarily engineering in the classic sense anymore. It is more about an ability to understand how different sub-systems work together and how they are actually used by customers (internal or external.).

my 2 cents.

 

[Marie scott]

Just saw your thread...I hope you have a job. If not check the FBI and or CIA both hire physics majors at the BS level. It is the problem solving experience they like. Further, with a physics BS you will understand explosives, ballistics etc. Anyway for all you physics majors don't forget the US government. Remember though you will have to pass a background check so no shenanigans:)
Lastly, the benefits the federal govt provides are second to none. If that is not your cup of tea try the Air Force or Navy they love the BS in Physics too and have lots of stuff for you to do besides fight:) Keep your head up Physics majors you worked your butt off for that degree!
God Bless You and Good Luck

 

[alligatorman]

This thread is so old.

 

[glueball8]

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

I'm considering taking Physics or EngSci(specialize in physics) in University. I like physics a lot more than EngSci but things like this are making me really worried. Specially, in University of Toronto for some reason that they keeps the physics GPA really really low (like the highest is 3.8) so theirs hardly any change to get scholarships or transfer to another school for grad (states). I can switch to physics from EngSci (I think), but I don't really like the courses in Engsci. There's not that much Physics or math, there's a lot of programming, chem, bio... but then 15% of pple who get out of EngSci get the top Grad school in the world. Which should I pick? I don't think there's time to do a double major, 50% of people are kick out after the 1st year. Any Advice?

 

[Physics_NYC]

Try George Washington University's MBA-Physics (Ph.D) joint program for one.

Tell me more about this.

 

[creepypasta13]

I have gotten a few interviews for programmer/analyst positions, and even did an internship in operations research with just a physics BS, but have gotten NO interviews for engineering positions or non-engineering positions at engineering companies

Have you tried looking at some of the govt contractors?

Companies like Lockheed, Northrop, SAIC, General Dynamics, BAE, BAH, Raytheon, etc.

They hire BS physics guys...

I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre

I've also been steadily employed in engineering and R&D positions for 25 years with a BS in Physics. I've been going part time for the past 3 years on an MS degree and am currently only a couple courses and a thesis away from it.

so if I want to go into the aerospace industry and already have a physics BS, how much will getting an MS in ME or AE really help? or am I better off just continuing the job search with just the physics BS?

I've also worked at a mixture of small (~30 employees) to my current large (>100k employees) companies. As another poster mentioned large defence/aerospace companies may be a good place to look. However, I'd suggest to the OP to look at smaller companies, they probably don't show up at your schools employment events - you may have to track them down thru trade publications.

There were far more openings listed in their paper than we had a clue existed. We cold called around on Monday - explained that we were out for a week and they'd better talk to us while they could. We basically filled a week with interview with no trouble. People were very willing to talk if they didn't have to invest in our travel expenses, and they liked our gumption in getting out there to them. We both eventually got several job offers out of that one trip. LA may not be the place to go anymore

I've tried cold calling, by looking up small private companies in the yellow pages, and most private companies have hiring freezes and aren't hiring. I live in LA

Just start calling engineering companies. Tell them you're a graduate and a student, explain your situation, talk directly to a company it can't hurt.

As I said above, it hasn't worked. However, a few of the employers have offered some advice about where to look

 

[lisab]

I have gotten a few interviews for programmer/analyst positions, and even did an internship in operations research with just a physics BS, but have gotten NO interviews for engineering positions or non-engineering positions at engineering companies




I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre



so if I want to go into the aerospace industry and already have a physics BS, how much will getting an MS in ME or AE really help? or am I better off just continuing the job search with just the physics BS?



I've tried cold calling, by looking up small private companies in the yellow pages, and most private companies have hiring freezes and aren't hiring. I live in LA



As I said above, it hasn't worked. However, a few of the employers have offered some advice about where to look

I'd apply to large companies anyway, despite what you've heard about needing to know someone to get in.

Another possibility is signing up for a technical temp agency. This a) gets money in your pocket, b) gives you experience, and c) might get you hired on full-time, because many companies hire that way - they use the temp route to "test drive" applicants.

 

[creepypasta13]

I'd apply to large companies anyway, despite what you've heard about needing to know someone to get in.

Another possibility is signing up for a technical temp agency. This a) gets money in your pocket, b) gives you experience, and c) might get you hired on full-time, because many companies hire that way - they use the temp route to "test drive" applicants.

I think that at this point I feel so hopeless about getting an engineering position or internship that I'll just accept an offer for a programming/analyst (or some technical but non-engineering) position, if I get one.

as for the temp agency, you're saying that if I get hired for them, I can eventually get hired for an actual engineering company?

 

[Ryker]

So are there any others with similar experience as the OP? Are one's chances of getting a (nice) job with "only" having a B.Sc. in Physics really so bleak?

 

[lisab]

I think that at this point I feel so hopeless about getting an engineering position or internship that I'll just accept an offer for a programming/analyst (or some technical but non-engineering) position, if I get one.

as for the temp agency, you're saying that if I get hired for them, I can eventually get hired for an actual engineering company?

Yes, it's possible. A lab I used to work for used temps routinely, and the ones that they liked were eventually offered full-time positions - that was how I got on with them.

It gives companies a way to "sample" a potential hires. Too many people look great on paper but are less-than-stellar on the job (in my experience, companies use this method ot evaluate an employee's "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_skills" ," which are critcal to good performance).

 

[Firefox123]

Sorry I haven't logged onto PF in a while...

I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre

90%?

Nope...this is untrue...whoever told you that is dead WRONG.

All I have ever worked is defense and I have been involved with hiring new engineers...believe me...you are NOT screwed if you don't know someone.

What has been your job search approach so far?