Getting the hubble constant from time delay in a gravitational lens

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the Hubble constant using time delays observed in the gravitational lensing of the quasar QSO 0957+561. Participants explore how to extract time delay information from flux density data and Julian day entries, as well as how to relate this delay to the distance of the quasar.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on calculating the time delay from flux densities and Julian days, indicating a need for clarity on the data analysis process.
  • Another participant notes a visible pattern in the lightcurves of QSO 0957+561, suggesting that the time delay can be determined by counting Julian days between spikes in the lightcurves of the two images.
  • A participant expresses interest in how to use the determined time delay to find the distance to the quasar, questioning the appropriateness of the equation they have for Dls, which relies on redshifts.
  • One participant inquires about the angle between the two images, suggesting that understanding the geometry of the lensing could aid in calculating distances.
  • Another participant confirms that the two images are 6 arcseconds apart and encourages creating a schematic to visualize the problem.
  • There is a request for the redshift values associated with the lens and source, indicating their relevance to the calculations being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to finding the time delay and the importance of visualizing the data. However, there is no consensus on the specific methods to relate the time delay to the distance or the appropriate equations to use, as different participants suggest varying approaches.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for redshift values and the angle between images, which are critical for calculations but have not been provided in the discussion. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the topic, indicating potential gaps in knowledge among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in gravitational lensing, cosmology, and the methods for calculating cosmological parameters from observational data.

cegec
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Hi everyone,

First time posting, sorry if this is in the wrong format or wrong place. For a project in a cosmology course I need to find the Hubble constant from from time delay in a gravitational lens. the one we are using is QSO 0957+561. My question is how to I find the time delay from a set of data containing the flux densities (for each of the two images the lens created) and the julian day for each data entry?

thanks
ps please let me know if I need to be more specific in this question.
 
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I've seen the QSO 0957+561 lightcurves and especially in the g-band there is this obvious spike and drop-off that occurs earlier in the A source (the direct straightline source) and then a certain number of Julian days later it occurs in the B source, where the light was bent and traveled two sides of a triangle to get to us.

It's obvious by eyeball pattern recognition. You can't miss the pattern. So all you have to do is count the Julian days. And that is the time delay.

Maybe you don't have a visual plot of the lightcurves? So you can't eyeball and see the pattern, and its shifted twin pattern? then my advice would be to make a plot so your visual brain can spot the pattern.

To me the interesting part is after you have determined the delay, which is easy to do, how do you determine from that how far away the quasar is!

After you have found the delay why don't you come back and tell us about it and tell us how you are going to find the distance. Nice project.

Officially your post belongs in homework help forum, not cosmo. They know what to say and not to say there. We shouldn't give away too much in hints. Here is the link to homework help forum:
https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=152
If you find you need more help than this you should probably go there.
 
thanks marcus that makes perfect sense! i was making it out to be more complicated than it was. how would you use the time delay to find the distance? the equation i have for Dls depends only on the redshift for the lens and the redshift for the source. should i be working with something different? appreciate the help
 
I'm curious: do you have the angle between the two images?
I am picturing a skinny triangle. I don't know if that is the right picture.

Ideally you should go to Homework forum and ask the same question. They are skilled at helpful questions without giving away. So then you learn more.

Your real problem is finding DISTANCE from the grav. lensing time delay. If you knew the distance along the straightline path (image A) then you could easily compare that with the redshift and find H.

Your job is to find the distance, along the long straight side of the triangle.
 
yes they are 6 arcseconds apart
 
cegec said:
yes they are 6 arcseconds apart

Well what are you waiting for? You know the approximate proportions, and you know an angle. Make a schematic picture of what you know. The first step is always to get some rough solution---you can make it more accurate later.
BTW what are the two redshifts?
 

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